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re: Potentially Unpopular Opinion Re: The Wire

Posted on 5/6/20 at 9:00 pm to
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
468041 posts
Posted on 5/6/20 at 9:00 pm to
ziggy is an essential element of the greatest character arc in a season in TV history: Frank Sobatka

and frank is an essential element of the greatest season in TV history: season 2 of the wire

also, hot take alert: the "kid" storyline in season 1 is so much better than the one in season 4
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
94860 posts
Posted on 5/6/20 at 9:55 pm to
quote:

Ziggy completely ruins season 2.


I'm torn between the character being poorly written (unlikely) or poorly acted (also unlikely, considering the overall strength of the rest of the cast).

I think it is a situation where the character is perhaps drawn a little too sharply and too densely - they tried to do too much (rather than the more common flaw of making a character too 1-dimensional) and they lapped themselves with an unintentional parody.

Having said that, Season 2 is better with ever single viewing - now on par with Season 1, for me. Nothing is without flaws. I'm not disagreeing that Ziggy may very well be Season 2's biggest flaw, but not fatal, IMHO.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
94860 posts
Posted on 5/6/20 at 9:57 pm to
quote:

also, hot take alert: the "kid" storyline in season 1 is so much better than the one in season 4


Yes, because the "kid" storyline in Season 1 is realistic, probably lines up with hundreds of kids from Baltimore from the 70s to 90s (and beyond), while Season 4 is an urban fairlytale (and it shows, although I still like it).
Posted by MF Doom
I'm only Joshin'
Member since Oct 2008
11757 posts
Posted on 5/6/20 at 11:43 pm to
DAE ELSE THINK THE WIRE SEASON 2 IS SO HECKIN UNDERRATED
Posted by MF Doom
I'm only Joshin'
Member since Oct 2008
11757 posts
Posted on 5/6/20 at 11:49 pm to
quote:

frickin right? I never liked or understood that character choice. What was up with that whole deal?




I have no idea. He's sticks out so much more on rewatches too
Posted by ThanosIsADemocrat
The Garden
Member since May 2018
9395 posts
Posted on 5/7/20 at 12:06 am to
Season 2 is arguably the best written season.
Posted by The Johnny Lawrence
Member since Sep 2016
2212 posts
Posted on 5/7/20 at 6:04 am to
I didn't know a ton about the show when I started watching it. I was shocked at the sudden change for season 2. Had you told me the general premise of season 4, I'm not sure it would have sounded promising. But that was my favorite season. I grew to care about the kids and storyline, which shocked me.
Posted by SCLibertarian
Conway, South Carolina
Member since Aug 2013
41124 posts
Posted on 5/7/20 at 10:41 am to
The Wire cannot exist without Season 2. Without the good dope from the Greeks, there's no Co-op. The good dope the Greeks provide is the baseline for much of the conflict in Season 3, 4 and 5.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
468041 posts
Posted on 5/7/20 at 10:49 am to
i think of the wire as a 3-act Shakespearean play with a slightly-related, 2-act sequel

the Greeks are the example of real criminality, but ignoring their whole importance, the real conflict of seasons 1-3 is in 2 with Stringer running things while Avon is locked up. their mutual downfall is cemented when String has D killed

but, to get back to the Greeks, their most important contribution is "my name is not my name", which is contrasted by Marlow's meltdown in prison



it shows the futility of the street-criminal culture and why they will always fail, compared to the real criminals, who get away
Posted by H-Town Tiger
Member since Nov 2003
60877 posts
Posted on 5/7/20 at 12:21 pm to
quote:

the real conflict of seasons 1-3 is in 2 with Stringer running things while Avon is locked up. their mutual downfall is cemented when String has D killed


there's a lot more Barksdale/Street stuff in S2 than many realize
Posted by Slim_Charles69
Bodymore, Murdaland
Member since Apr 2015
779 posts
Posted on 5/7/20 at 1:30 pm to
Season 2 gets better with every re-watch. Have been doing a COVID re-watch and loved it. Kinda like Ziggy too even though he is a dip shite
This post was edited on 5/7/20 at 1:31 pm
Posted by H-Town Tiger
Member since Nov 2003
60877 posts
Posted on 5/7/20 at 1:32 pm to
yeah i agree, i liked S2 the first time but thought 1 and 3 were better, now i think 1 and 2 are neck and neck and certainly a step up from S3.
Posted by Dire Wolf
bawcomville
Member since Sep 2008
39954 posts
Posted on 5/7/20 at 2:02 pm to
quote:



the real conflict of seasons 1-3 is in 2 with Stringer running things while Avon is locked up. their mutual downfall is cemented when String has D killed


Also why it’s important that stringer clinton’s D the same episode as Bird going to jail. Stinger has no muscle and is forced to network. D was too much of a loose end if all things started to go to shite. It’s called all prologue for a reason.

In different hands, the wire could have stated with Avon getting out of jail ala king of New York.

This post was edited on 5/7/20 at 2:03 pm
Posted by smash williams
San Diego
Member since Apr 2009
20979 posts
Posted on 5/7/20 at 2:14 pm to
I agree with season 2 being essential to the series but that entire plot could have evolved the same with Nick being involved in the drug distribution and getting caught up.
Posted by Saskwatch
Member since Feb 2016
18019 posts
Posted on 5/7/20 at 2:15 pm to
quote:

Ziggy completely ruins season 2


He's a frick up but that's kind of the point right. He did have the car idea which was pretty slick. He got his arse punked by Cheese.

I thought the duck was hilarious.
Posted by NOLALGD
Member since May 2014
2707 posts
Posted on 5/7/20 at 2:22 pm to
quote:

the Greeks are the example of real criminality, but ignoring their whole importance, the real conflict of seasons 1-3 is in 2 with Stringer running things while Avon is locked up. their mutual downfall is cemented when String has D killed


Great point here about Season 2 and Avon vs. Stringer. I would disagree slightly on the mutual downfall and say it was set in motion by not just one but TWO critical Stringer decisions...the plot against D...and...going around Avon and Brother (the least realistic character on the entire show) with Omar.

I believe Avon would have eventually got over D, and in Season 3 it looks like he may have, at least temporarily. Remember, he could have dimed out Stringer to his sister, but he didn't, in part to protect the business. Him and Stringer would never be tight like brothers again, but they could have stayed partners in the business. Maybe it wouldn't last long-term, but Avon was a soldier and he treated the game that way.

What's much harder to survive is putting hits out on, and double crossing experienced killers like Brother (yak) and Omar. In real life these are the type of guys you either get them, or eventually they hang around long enough to get you. Stringer would have been better off going full out (again) after Omar like Marlo did and finishing off Brother while he was in the hospital. I know that's a hard proposition, but he left too many loose ends.
Posted by Dire Wolf
bawcomville
Member since Sep 2008
39954 posts
Posted on 5/7/20 at 2:37 pm to
quote:


I agree with season 2 being essential to the series but that entire plot could have evolved the same with Nick being involved in the drug distribution and getting caught up.



There is a consistent theme with characters that are out of place to their lot in life. Nick doesn’t really fit that mold, he can handle himself and if his uncle wasn’t an a-hole to the wrong cop he probably runs dope undetected for a long time.

Wallace, Dee, ziggy, Roland, and namond all fit that role.
Posted by smash williams
San Diego
Member since Apr 2009
20979 posts
Posted on 5/7/20 at 4:06 pm to
That whole main plot was the wire they had which Nick was a part of. Everything could have been the same if his uncle turned informant to save the union and later met with the Greek to save Nick from going to prison.

And I thought Nick and D’s arcs mirrored each other’s. A lot of similarities there.
Posted by PortCityTiger24
Member since Dec 2006
87455 posts
Posted on 5/7/20 at 4:36 pm to
The reason you don’t like season 2 is because it’s so different than season 1. You want to see more of the hood stuff. Once you finish and look back, season 2 is not only necessary but it’s really good.

Ziggy is a douche. That’s what he’s suppose to be.
Posted by wadewilson
Member since Sep 2009
40636 posts
Posted on 5/7/20 at 9:43 pm to
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