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re: No, The Avengers is not overrated.
Posted on 5/7/12 at 12:17 am to Freauxzen
Posted on 5/7/12 at 12:17 am to Freauxzen
quote:
You really think TDK is a comic book movie? The conversation ends there.
honestly though, where is the line drawn
if TDK and First Class aren't "comic book" movies, then which ones are?
i presume watchmen is out
spider man also
i presume superman is in
obviously the character-based films leading up to this one are in
This post was edited on 5/7/12 at 12:18 am
1
Posted on 5/7/12 at 12:17 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i've asked what it's real competition is, then
it seems any movie with complex themes and conflicted heroes, with a bit of seriousness, don't count
Again, a big generalization.
But TDK isn't trying to steep itself in the comic book of Batman, only the idea of one. If you can't tell the difference between TDK and Batman Returns (which, again, is a better comic book movie than TDK), I don't know what to tell you.
TDK's primary purpose isn't putting a comic book on film, that much should be obvious.
Posted on 5/7/12 at 12:18 am to RonBurgundy
quote:
Comics are filled with comedy, breaking news.
Kick arse is listed as "Action, adventure, comedy" on IMDB. Do you think any of the super hero movies you love so much are listed as such?
quote:
dont judge me shrimp poboy ghetto referencing poster.
wtf are you talking about.Posted on 5/7/12 at 12:19 am to RonBurgundy
quote:
The flat Xavier?
the dynamics of a character doesn't mean the actor can't portray a great role
the joker was a flat character and ledger did kind of well playing him
quote:
The scene in the Hellcarrier's Lab with all the main players in it was twice as good.
not really. it was just them trying to yell over everyone. it didn't have the intricate drama to give them anything to work with
quote:
and dont ingnore the rest of the terrible performances in FC.
there aren't that many options to discuss with comic book movies
you're basically looking at TDK, First Class, or Watchmen
Posted on 5/7/12 at 12:20 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
honestly though, where is the line drawn
if TDK and First Class aren't "comic book" movies, then which ones are?
i presume watchmen is out
spider man also
i presume superman is in
obviously the character-based films leading up to this one are in
There isn't a "line." It's about approach. What is the film primarily doing? What are it's main goals in relation to it's source? How faithful are the characters to their source? Etc. It's a matrix, not a line, and for the most part, TDK isn't trying to fulfill that kind of role.
That doesn't make it a bad film, TDK is a great film. But it's more about interpreting its source for a more real goal than it is about finding a way to put its source directly on screen.
This post was edited on 5/7/12 at 12:21 am
Posted on 5/7/12 at 12:20 am to Freauxzen
quote:
Again, a big generalization.
But TDK isn't trying to steep itself in the comic book of Batman, only the idea of one. If you can't tell the difference between TDK and Batman Returns (which, again, is a better comic book movie than TDK), I don't know what to tell you.
TDK's primary purpose isn't putting a comic book on film, that much should be obvious.
You're arguing genres again. If I've learned anything from this board, it's that the posters don't really understand genres.
That is probably why the genre discussion threads never take off and only get three or four posters in them. Nobody really gets what makes a film belong to a certain genre.
Source material does not make a film a certain genre.
Posted on 5/7/12 at 12:21 am to SlowFlowPro
Well, I guess it should be no surprise that I didn't really enjoy Hulk, and while the Spider-man movies were watchable, I wouldn't put them anywhere on a plane with the MVU movies.
Spider-man is just underwhelming superhero, and doesn't really fight the same type of villians as the others.
Spider-man is just underwhelming superhero, and doesn't really fight the same type of villians as the others.
Posted on 5/7/12 at 12:22 am to Freauxzen
quote:
If you can't tell the difference between TDK and Batman Returns (which, again, is a better comic book movie than TDK), I don't know what to tell you.
i think this is more of an emotional distinction and not a rational/logical one...kind of like discussing "culture"
quote:
But TDK isn't trying to steep itself in the comic book of Batman, only the idea of one.
quote:
TDK's primary purpose isn't putting a comic book on film
it seems like the distinction you're trying to make is one i already brought up: TDK is a serious film. Avengers is not a serious film. First Class is a serious film
the themes, stories, conflict are on different levels based on how serious the movies are
that's the only real distinction i can draw
Posted on 5/7/12 at 12:23 am to Freauxzen
quote:
No. I specifically said, you didn't like the film, and that's ok. Can you read
And I said I liked the film. But I'm arguing against its greatness, which is a completely different argument.
quote:
You also jumped in when my original response was to SFP
In which he referenced my post, saying that he agreed with me. So I had a valid point in responding to you.
quote:
This movie has "no atmosphere." Which again, is quite an exaggeration.
The fanboys are actually claiming that this movie had atmosphere?>???
quote:
You really think TDK is a comic book movie? The conversation ends there.
Since when did "Comic Book Movie" become its own genre? And if it did, when did it exclude one of the biggest comic book heroes of all time based on style?
Posted on 5/7/12 at 12:23 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
well prof x "lost" magneto and mystique (we all knew that it was going to happen only b/c we already know the myth). he didn't achieve all of his goals. in fact, he led to help creating his most powerful mutant foe
Well The Avengers lost Clarke and probably hundreds of New Yorkers in addition to getting blamed for the invasion. The Avengers has always been about turmoil within the group anyways, that's why Whedon was chosen.
quote:
well prof x "lost" magneto and mystique (we all knew that it was going to happen only b/c we already know the myth). he didn't achieve all of his goals. in fact, he led to help creating his most powerful mutant foe
You are stretching,as admitted the viewer already knows this, so the only question is are the nukes gonna hit anybody?
Posted on 5/7/12 at 12:24 am to magildachunks
quote:
You're arguing genres again. If I've learned anything from this board, it's that the posters don't really understand genres.
That is probably why the genre discussion threads never take off and only get three or four posters in them. Nobody really gets what makes a film belong to a certain genre.
Source material does not make a film a certain genre.
i'm asking for a logical, rational, operational definition for each of these genres to divide the movies up to compare within the genre
Posted on 5/7/12 at 12:24 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
First Class is a serious film
First Class is not a serious film.
Posted on 5/7/12 at 12:25 am to Roaad
Any movie with this much media/fan hype is, inevitably, overrated.
Posted on 5/7/12 at 12:25 am to SlowFlowPro
How about we go with graphic novel movies for the serious ones and comic book movies for the avengers?
Posted on 5/7/12 at 12:27 am to RonBurgundy
quote:
Well The Avengers lost Clarke
not exactly a loss that anyone cares about
quote:
and probably hundreds of New Yorkers
nobody cares about faceless deaths in comics in terms of dramatic effect
quote:
The Avengers has always been about turmoil within the group anyways
but the movie left no real fear of this turmoil keeping them from getting together and winning in the end, which they did
quote:
the viewer already knows this,
but that's not fair. we only know that b/c it's using material from a source and b/c it's a prequel of sorts
WITHIN the movie itself, that's some major drama. the battle of the movie wasn't really x-men v. humanity, it was prof x v. magneto in their eventual war over humanity. prof x lost. magneto left. mystique left, too (in part due to frickups of prof x)
Posted on 5/7/12 at 12:28 am to RonBurgundy
quote:
First Class is not a serious film.
in terms of this discussion, it is (it was separated from discussion against avengers by the avengers fans first)
and outside of this discussion, how is it not?
Posted on 5/7/12 at 12:28 am to HideChaKidz
quote:
Kick arse is listed as "Action, adventure, comedy" on IMDB. Do you think any of the super hero movies you love so much are listed as such?
IMDB sucks, but the tone of the source material in the above have comedy in them all the fricking time. Even Batman.
quote:
wtf are you talking about.
pic, name
Posted on 5/7/12 at 12:29 am to RonBurgundy
quote:
IMDB sucks
baloo is going to smite you
Posted on 5/7/12 at 12:30 am to RonBurgundy
quote:
pic, name
You're laughing about my avatar and name??
Dude... your name is Ron Burgundy.
Posted on 5/7/12 at 12:30 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i'm asking for a logical, rational, operational definition for each of these genres to divide the movies up to compare within the genre
The best way I can illustrate why Avengers is considered a Comic Book Movie and TDk is not is by going with my Western example:
Copland is a western, although it takes place in the New jersey of the 1990's. Young guns and Tombstone are not westerns. They are action films set in the old west.
Summing up: settings do not make the genre.
Just like source material (comic books) do not make the genre.
The Avengers is a comic book movie, while the Dark Knight only has characters based on a comic. It is a crime-drama, much in the vein of Serpico.
Does that make sense?
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