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Started By
Message
re: Making a Murderer - Part 2
Posted on 11/1/18 at 2:14 pm to Ace Midnight
Posted on 11/1/18 at 2:14 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
NO court or jury has agreed with the defense or documentary filmmakers. NONE that have been asked to rule on the case.
This statement is not correct. Do you agree?
1
Posted on 11/1/18 at 2:16 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
This statement is not correct. Do you agree?
As I phrased it, yes, it is an incorrect statement. The fact that subsequent, superior authorities have reversed those decisions render this largely semantic, but on that point, you win, sir.
I'm sure Brendan Dassey is enjoying his Wrestlemania as a free man as we speak.
Posted on 11/1/18 at 2:19 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
As I phrased it, yes, it is an incorrect statement. The fact that subsequent, superior authorities have reversed those decisions render this largely semantic, but on that point, you win, sir.
It isn't about winning. You made an incorrect point. Simple as that.
Dassey was ordered released, and a 4-3 vote under some fairly unique circumstances is all that prevented that from happening. That's far from the way you tried to categorize it more than once.
Posted on 11/1/18 at 2:41 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Nice straw man.
How is it a straw man? It shows just how ridiculous your definition of proving a case is.
Where do you draw the line? Has a prosecutor proven a case if a majority of the public believes the defendant is guilty? 2/3rds? 90%? 12 jurors?
Posted on 11/1/18 at 2:46 pm to UpToPar
quote:
How is it a straw man?
You brought up the Charles Manson case, which is still talked about for very different reasons.
quote:
straw man
1. an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.
Posted on 11/1/18 at 2:49 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
Well, pick any number of cases that ended with a conviction. I’m trying to figure out where you draw the line between proven and not proven.
You stated that the fact we are still discussing the case means it hasn’t been proven. How many people need to discuss a case before you consider it unproven?
You stated that the fact we are still discussing the case means it hasn’t been proven. How many people need to discuss a case before you consider it unproven?
Posted on 11/1/18 at 2:55 pm to UpToPar
quote:
Well, pick any number of cases that ended with a conviction.
You'd need to do that. You're making the claim, not me. I'd say we just stick to this case, but you do you.
quote:
You stated that the fact we are still discussing the case means it hasn’t been proven.
It isn't simply that we're just discussing the case. There's an entire debate going on whether these two should be in prison or not. That didn't exist in Manson's case. Show me other cases where it did, and you might have a point.
Posted on 11/1/18 at 3:12 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
There's an entire debate going on whether these two should be in prison or not. That didn't exist in Manson's case. Show me other cases where it did, and you might have a point.
Sure it did. There are Manson sympathizers out there just as there are with any convicted killer. Obviously, not on the scale as this case, but that’s why I asked you where you draw the line.
Posted on 11/1/18 at 3:48 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
It would suck for you if I actually did know what I was talking about.
Not really, I'd get over it, and you haven't really proven that you do.
quote:
Right, and that's completely accurate, which is why no one has bothered to challenge me on it
Nope and I just did in my previous post.
quote:
That's why you made up some nonsense about us discussing this befo
Nope. I already went over this and I brought it up because the guy in that thread was playing the exact same game you are right now.
Posted on 11/1/18 at 3:49 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Well, for starters, that's not even an accurate statement
Hows that?
Posted on 11/1/18 at 3:59 pm to UpToPar
quote:
Obviously, not on the scale as this case
Obviously.
Posted on 11/1/18 at 4:01 pm to CajunTiger_225
quote:
Not really, I'd get over it, and you haven't really proven that you do.
But I have. Unfortunately, I've had to spend most of my time correcting those who do not.
quote:
I just did in my previous post.
No, you didn't.
quote:
Nope. I already went over this and I brought it up because the guy in that thread was playing the exact same game you are right now.
I very much doubt that. You couldn't even remember the conversation. Pass on taking that statement as anything value.
Posted on 11/1/18 at 4:02 pm to CajunTiger_225
quote:
Hows that?
The courts have agreed with Dassey's defense team. More than once. Ace already conceded that point.
Posted on 11/1/18 at 9:16 pm to TXGunslinger10
Just finished it.
1. Bunch of corrupt frickers. They framed Avery. The cops moved the car onto the property and they planted evidence. Krantz does all these media appearances because he is balls deep in the con job they pulled. The trial judge is either an idiot or corrupt. At the end of the day this is all about that $36M those frickers dont want to pay for the first wrongful conviction which led to the second.
2. frick that federal appealate court en banc majority opinion. bullshite that Brenden Dassey will most likely remain in prison most of his life.
1 and 2 I'm sure of.
3. Speculation here, but the other Dassey brother does seem like a legit suspect of who actually did it. He is safe though. Just like with the West Memphis Three, if Avery is eventually freed no one else will be charged. Which means whoever did it did and will get away with it.
1. Bunch of corrupt frickers. They framed Avery. The cops moved the car onto the property and they planted evidence. Krantz does all these media appearances because he is balls deep in the con job they pulled. The trial judge is either an idiot or corrupt. At the end of the day this is all about that $36M those frickers dont want to pay for the first wrongful conviction which led to the second.
2. frick that federal appealate court en banc majority opinion. bullshite that Brenden Dassey will most likely remain in prison most of his life.
1 and 2 I'm sure of.
3. Speculation here, but the other Dassey brother does seem like a legit suspect of who actually did it. He is safe though. Just like with the West Memphis Three, if Avery is eventually freed no one else will be charged. Which means whoever did it did and will get away with it.
Posted on 11/2/18 at 11:40 am to Tiger n Miami AU83
So a broader point that I want to make.
I'm VERY skeptical of government and tend to naturally believe that someone is innocent. I dont think either guy did it but Im quite sure Dassey is innocent.
However, in a clip the DA of Wisconsin said in an interview regarding the Federal Appeals process that "this isnt a question of innocence this is a question of Federalism" and i was like "frick they got me...."
100% i think the the federal courts should have a VERY difficult standard to meet when overturning the rulings of a lawfully concluded state level decision.
I do not believe that the "unreasonable" standard of AEDPA is bad. You cant just have Daddy up in the feds saying "DISAGREE with you dumb local yocals" and striking down the rulings of 5 levels of state decisions.
I do think that Brendan was coerced in his interview. But not in a way that can be broadly applied to thousands of cases.
And it sucks but you cant tear down the whole house. And judges have to consider the impact to the legal world when making these decisions.
I'm VERY skeptical of government and tend to naturally believe that someone is innocent. I dont think either guy did it but Im quite sure Dassey is innocent.
However, in a clip the DA of Wisconsin said in an interview regarding the Federal Appeals process that "this isnt a question of innocence this is a question of Federalism" and i was like "frick they got me...."
100% i think the the federal courts should have a VERY difficult standard to meet when overturning the rulings of a lawfully concluded state level decision.
I do not believe that the "unreasonable" standard of AEDPA is bad. You cant just have Daddy up in the feds saying "DISAGREE with you dumb local yocals" and striking down the rulings of 5 levels of state decisions.
I do think that Brendan was coerced in his interview. But not in a way that can be broadly applied to thousands of cases.
And it sucks but you cant tear down the whole house. And judges have to consider the impact to the legal world when making these decisions.
Posted on 11/2/18 at 8:10 pm to TXGunslinger10
I can’t tell if Steven Avery did it. His body language says to believe him, but I’m not 100%
However, those interview clips of Brendan Dassey are fricking infuriating. This kid got taken advantage of so hard. My god. Those people all deserve to rot in hell for taking advantage of a retarded kid. frick right off.
His lawyer looks so proud of what he did to Brendan too. He is the worst of the fricking bunch.
ETA: I got a feeling that one of the other family members might have actually done the deed. The 2 guys in season 1 are the only family members who look smug and arrogant about this whole process while all the other members grieve and fight.
However, those interview clips of Brendan Dassey are fricking infuriating. This kid got taken advantage of so hard. My god. Those people all deserve to rot in hell for taking advantage of a retarded kid. frick right off.
His lawyer looks so proud of what he did to Brendan too. He is the worst of the fricking bunch.
ETA: I got a feeling that one of the other family members might have actually done the deed. The 2 guys in season 1 are the only family members who look smug and arrogant about this whole process while all the other members grieve and fight.
This post was edited on 11/2/18 at 8:18 pm
Posted on 11/2/18 at 8:25 pm to ShamelessPel
16 pages is a lot to wade through, so if this has been mentioned, I apologize. But there is a podcast called Rebutting a Murderer that provides a really nice balance to the documentary. It has a 15ish minute episode for each of the MaM episodes starting with season one. It's in iTunes.
Posted on 11/3/18 at 3:35 am to TXGunslinger10
This systematic failure of covering up the person behind you in Wisconsin is alarming. This has become much less about Avery for me and much more about the Brendan Dassey “confession”. This is really sad. Brendan is rotting away in prison for horrific and violent crimes that occurred in a bedroom that shows absolutely zero evidence.
Shitty cops do shitty cop things all the time. I’m not sure on Steven Avery, though I’m definitely more inclined to think the dude with all the crazy shite on his computer that lived where all the evidence was found did it. It’s not excusable, but it’s hard to debunk.
There seems to be so many holes in Brendan’s case it’s incredible. Dude asked for an attorney that would actually defend him and they stuck him with that same a-hole for crying out loud.
So many people fricked up along the way that the Federal Court is having to step in because it was botched so badly in this particular case, and they likely wanted nothing to do with any of this as it’s a lose/lose for them and they still side with Brendan. And he’s still in prison I mean holy shite.
ETA: finished S2. This show is maddening. Definitely feel even more strongly about the opinions above. Kratz is such a huge piece of shite.
Shitty cops do shitty cop things all the time. I’m not sure on Steven Avery, though I’m definitely more inclined to think the dude with all the crazy shite on his computer that lived where all the evidence was found did it. It’s not excusable, but it’s hard to debunk.
There seems to be so many holes in Brendan’s case it’s incredible. Dude asked for an attorney that would actually defend him and they stuck him with that same a-hole for crying out loud.
So many people fricked up along the way that the Federal Court is having to step in because it was botched so badly in this particular case, and they likely wanted nothing to do with any of this as it’s a lose/lose for them and they still side with Brendan. And he’s still in prison I mean holy shite.
ETA: finished S2. This show is maddening. Definitely feel even more strongly about the opinions above. Kratz is such a huge piece of shite.
This post was edited on 11/3/18 at 5:05 am
Posted on 11/4/18 at 4:29 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
That almost certainly happened in the OJ Simpson case.
Did it?
Posted on 11/12/18 at 2:31 am to MidnightVibe
I’m on ep 6. Zellner balling out.
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