re: Just watched Attack of the Clones

But I am asking why. Why is TLJ so universally hated on this board? What reasons, specifically, do people hate it for? I watched it again yesterday and thought it was decent. Not great, obviously, but still decent and entertaining. And I don't remember specifics but some of the things I remember people hating about it (like it ruining Luke's legacy, for example) didn't hold up for me when watching it yesterday. At all really. So I am asking people specifically why they hated it SO MUCH. And I have yet to get an answer.

So I will also ask you:

quote:

---

The other is flawed by a nonsensical story that feels as if it works to undermine previous movies and established characters.

---

Explain that, in detail please, as I assume Luke is one of your biggest points with that sentence.

And I am honestly asking too. Not being a dick. I just am open to debate as to why TLJ is seen as such a terrible movie. Sometimes it feels like that's just the cool thing to say about it, so I am asking legit reasons why.

AOTC is a worse movie.

The only, and I mean ONLY, redeeming quality is that it actually wanted to be a Star Wars movie.

TLJ is a bad movie that resented everything that it was and it’s own fan base. It never wanted to be a Star Wars movie.

That being said, I rank AOTC last and TLJ 2nd to last.

The gap between the two is pretty large though.

quote:

---

2nd Worst movie in the star wars franchise

---

FIFY

quote:

---

At least AOTC doesn't hate itself or its fans.

---

Yes it does. It doesn't intentionally do it, but AotC is nothing but hate.

quote:

---

A lot of people simply prefer a good story

---

Don't kid yourself neither had a good story

First is pacing. This movie feels like it ends at least three or more times, yet keeps going. It feels super long.

You mention Luke, let’s talk about Luke. I don’t mind that he sulked after his jedi academy failed and his star pupil turned to the dark side. I don’t even mind the blue milk or the saber flip. What I don’t like is ignoring previously established forshadowing like it didn’t happen. It’s one thing to headfake an audience, it’s another to completely ignore an established plot line. For example, in TFA, Luke left a map in his R2 droid to be able to find him. In TLJ, he didn’t want to be found and had basically gone to that island to die. That doesn’t make sense. If he didn’t want to be found, he wouldn’t have left behind a map to his location. In ROTJ, Luke’s defining quality is that he sees the good in people. He never gives up on his father no matter what Vader had done to people. He continues to believe his father can be good, and his faith is rewarded. In TLJ he attempts to murder his nephew based on a bad dream. That doesn’t make sense for his character at all! There’s a million different reasons why Ben could have had a falling out with Luke, but that one just doesn’t make any sense for the character. Then, Luke redeems himself at the end and sacrifices himself at the salt planet to save his sister. Very Luke of him, but he’s not really there, just a projection. Yet, despite not being there, he still dies for no reason. If he was going to die, he might as well have just gone there to die in person.

Rey experiences zero struggles or personal growth. There was all kinds of foreshadowing as to who her parents might be and the source of her abilities. TLJ just basically says, “frick you for even asking” and gives you nothing.

That’s just scratching the surface. I could go on and on.

quote:

---

You mention Luke, let’s talk about Luke. I don’t mind that he sulked after his jedi academy failed and his star pupil turned to the dark side.

---

This is an example of the destruction of a character.

Luke doesn’t just sulk and run off, he was the cause of it all, per TLJ, which is completely counter to everything he did previously.

He wouldn’t kill his father, a man who murdered countless men, women, and children, but he decides to murder his own nephew in his sleep because he felt something might happen?

It was a destruction of the character merely to destroy it.

The only redeeming aspects of TLJ were the Rey and Kylo scenes, which sadly didn’t lead anywhere. I was hoping she would join him in the end. It would have made for a new twist and actual conflict in the 3rd.

quote:

---

Luke doesn’t just sulk and run off, he was the cause of it all, per TLJ, which is completely counter to everything he did previously.

He wouldn’t kill his father, a man who murdered countless men, women, and children, but he decides to murder his own nephew in his sleep?

---

Rian really subverted your expectations didn't he? What a genius!

Episode I is worse than Episode II in terms of most film critique. Episode II was terrible but it at least a coherent plot, an actual protagonist (split protagonist) and it made an actual attempt at creating a fleshed out antagonist. It’s just incredibly dull with horrible dialogue.

Episode VIII is just so bad on so many different levels - completely undeveloped characters, giving enormous amounts of screen time to irrelevant characters and side quests, and hypocritical messaging. It also craps on a lot of the story and characters that were already established.

In technical terms, it wasn’t as bad as Episode II or Episode I but it was just such a disappointment and so disrespectful to the films that came before it that it seems so much worse.

And it doesn’t help that Disney and all the shitty critics under the umbrella of influence attack anyone that points out just how shitty of a movie it is.

The prequels really are a mess in terms of story telling but if that was the story Lucas wanted to tell, it would be much better served as a TV series. The galaxy building is just too big for three films. What was so great about the OT was it was really a small story behind a large war backdrop (a lot like Saving Private Ryan). The prequels are all over the place and so big that you end up not really caring about any of it.