re: Is it Possible Maester Aemon knew who Jon's real Mother was? (Spoilers maybe)

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It really depends on what the promise or duty was.

If its "Keep Jon safe" then he could tell Benjen.

If its "Don't Tell anyone" I don't think he woudl even tell Benjen.

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I think that Ned can still use common sense in this. Lyanna's main priority was Robert not finding out, or any high lord that would harm or try to crown him. Benjen sure as shite wouldn't just sit by and accept Ned's bullshite answers he gave Robert. Robert was an idiot and would take Ned's word for it. Gerold Hightower and Arthur Dayne being there with Lyanna dying is highly suspicious, and that wouldn't have gone unnoticed by Benjen. Benjen is owed an explanation on what happened to his sister. Catelyn isn't, especially due to the fact that Ned didn't know her at all from the start and what a count she was to Jon.

I think it's highly possible that Jon Arryn may have figured it out, but didn't say anything knowing that Ned would never use Jon to oppose Robert, especially due to the "Dragonspawn" comment. I still have a hard time believing lords like Tywin Lannister and Randyll Tarly wouldn't have thought of this as well. Randyll may have, but I think it's clear Tywin didn't.

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What are you basing that on?

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Tywin's reasoning skills. He knew the Lords of the Reach would come fairly peacefully once defeated, and that Dorne could be dealt with in 6 of the 7 Kingdoms forces against them. The three remaining Kingsguard though were the biggest threat to his family once he had the Targaryen children killed and Jaime secured. If Gerold Hightower and Arthur Dayne were with Viserys, this would likely spell disaster for Robert's reign.

Ser Gerold was the head commander of the Forces against the Ninepenny Kings. He could have gained massive support for Viserys title in the Free Cities. Ser Gerold also could additionally secure the Reach's support, and Ser Arthur would have gotten Dorne to his side and the smallfolk at large against Robert. Robert's Rebellion was not a rebellion against the Targaryens, but against Aerys himself. Viserys didn't stand a chance at getting these forces on his own, but with those Kingsguard, he would get an incredibly formidable army to challenge Robert's reign and possibly wipe out him and the Lannisters.

Now when Ned just happens to find them with a very small force for whatever reason, they're guarding Lyanna Stark, Ned kills them, and then Ned then goes to Starfall and Ashara kills herself, Tywin should have taken notice. It's not Ned being honorable that's the big red flag. The big red flag is why were the Kingsguard protecting Lyanna Stark and not Viserys. Once Rhaegar is dead, they should have left their post if Lyanna isn't pregnant with Rhaegar's heir. Tywin knew these people well, and I think he should have known this.

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Also, if you are gonna start a war over a woman, it does make sense that you would want her protected.

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Not over the King himself. The only reason they were there was to protect the King. They at least should have been in route to protect Viserys if Lyanna wasn't pregnant.

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Makes no sense.

They were there instead of protecting 1) the reigning king 2) the Crown Prince 3) Rhaegar's children from his first marriage including a male heir who would trump Jon.

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But this was still Rhaegar's child they were protecting. The Kingsguard is sworn to protect the King's Bloodline above all else. Lyanna is not of that bloodline. Protecting the King's true family is literally their only duty, and thus they would have abandoned her regardless of Rhaegar's commands if she wasn't pregnant.

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AT BEST Jon would be the child of a polygamous marriage. Polygamy isn't recognized by the 7 and while Targaryens did it anyway, people wouldn't rally behind the kid until he was the last possible option. He could have also just been a bastard.

Visery's would still have a stronger claim.

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No he wouldn't. The Targaryens have done this before. Rhaegar's legitimate children still have rights over Viserys.

Plus Rhaegar was obsessed with the prophesy of a dragon having 3 heads. He made that clear. Lyanna is not the third head, it is her son. Rhaegar made it clear to the Kingsguard that Jon was the Prince who was Promised, I'm almost certain of it. Maybe Tywin didn't know this little part.

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They were there because Rhaegar loved Lyanna and tasked them to protect her and the child. 3 kings guards compared to a fricking war isn't that big a deal, clearly Rhaegar was willing to go to bat for this chick.

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They are morally obligated to abandon their post if there is a King in need of their service. Tywin should know this. Once Rhaegar and certainly Aerys is dead, and Viserys has no guardian, it's their literal duty to abandon what they are doing to go serve the new king.

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I think y'all are misinterpreting what it meant when they say Ned wasn't close with Lyanna. He had spent damn near his entire life in the Vale with Robert and Jon Arryn up until Robert's war. He went to the Vale around 8 yrs old. And Robert's rebellion started around the time they were 18-19. So he spent almost all his formidable years in the Vale. But that doesn't mean he wasn't close to or didn't share the love he had for Robert and Jon with his entire family.

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I know they both loved each other, but I don't think Ned was all that keen on Lyanna's tomboyishness and thought she needed to be more of a proper lady. She needed to behave honorably for her house. Brandon and Benjen didn't care about that. She loved him just as much as her other brothers, but I don't think she trusted Ned fully in that he put his own honor over everything else.

I think for his bias againt Lyanna while she was living is why Arya is truly Ned's favored child. He was hell bent on not repeating the same mistake with her and wanted her to live the life she saw fit.

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They are morally obligated to abandon their post if there is a King in need of their service.

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They are sworn to protect the kings bloodline, but they didn't protect the King the Crown prince of the Crown Prince's first born child. If that was their duty shouldn't they have gone to king's landing after the battle if the Trident?

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It doesn't matter what order they are in. So long as they are over the king's bloodline, they are sworn to protect them and obey orders from them. The Crown Prince commanded they stay there to protect his child. They received no further commands from Aerys. Rhaegar also had protection in Barristan Selmy, Lewyn Martell, and Jonothor Darry, and Aerys had Jaime protecting him. They were not obligated to move their posts until Aerys was slaughtered by their own brother. Once they heard of that, they should have immediately gone to Viserys' side, unless of course Lyanna is pregnant.

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So how could Tywin be suspicious of there being a child. The Kingsguards were crazy loyal to Rhaegar. They loved him. Look at how Selmy talks about him. They woudl have listened to Rhaegar.

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He also knows they were obsessed with their vows and they were the single greatest Kingsguard in Westerosi history. They would have either taken Lyanna along with them to Viserys or abandoned her somewhere along the way. They wouldn't have waited around at a tower unless Lyanna was carrying and couldn't go anywhere else rationally.

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Yet, they were at the tower of joy instead of protecting the King, The Crown Prince, or the Grown Prince's eldest son. They were there because Rhaegar asked them to be. their duty would have had them at King's Landing.

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All these people had Kingsguard protection at the time though. Kingsguard vows aren't as damning as Night's Watch's vows. They are given time off to go home and bond with their family, as Jaime and Lewyn have shown.

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Plus the point is, why didn't Tywin figure it out, and it is perfectly logical that Rhaegar woudl task his 3 trusted friends and Kingsguards with protecting the woman he cared enough about to start a war.

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My point is Tywin would know that they would immediately stop all orders from Rhaegar and Aerys in order to protect King Viserys as soon as they knew Aerys was dead. It's in their vows, and they take those vows very seriously.

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Either the Kingsuard puts their oath to protect the king over everything, or they take orders from the Crown Prince. After the Trident, when every kingsgaurd but Jamie was either wounded or killed, they should have abandoned Lyanna to protect the king and the heir (Aegon) in kings landing

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No. Their king is still alive and they have a brother to protect him. They should not have abandoned their post over Rhaegar's death.

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Even if he was legitimate, until Aegon died, Jon woudln't have had any more of a claim to the Throne than Viserys (Both being the younger brother of the heir apparent)

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He's still a member of the royal family though.

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So either they decided that being at the Tower of Joy to protect a non-heir was more important, or they decided their loyalty to the Prince was More important.

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They received no further orders from Aerys though.

Why you write would like that?

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Also, the Dragon has 3 heads. There were arrangements already in place to get Viserys and Dany across and I believe Rhaegar was involved with those.

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Except, one of the three heads Rhaegar was thinking of is dead now. You can thank a certain Khal for that.

So who is the third head gonna be? Tyrion? Lots of theories surrounding his real father. Young Griff/Aegon? Doubt we ever see him in the show. Varys? God I really hope not.

Can we just have one thread for this stupid arse show instead of 35 different who is a better sword fighter or who is a Bastard threads every day