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How "woke" is They Live?
Posted on 10/23/21 at 3:06 pm
Posted on 10/23/21 at 3:06 pm
It's on Peacock.
Literally, one of the subliminal messages is "Stay Asleep. Obey."
And the movie says that the rich and and the police are out to get you.
Literally, one of the subliminal messages is "Stay Asleep. Obey."
And the movie says that the rich and and the police are out to get you.
9
Posted on 10/23/21 at 3:07 pm to UndercoverBryologist
It’s not very “woke” at all. But it does represent the type of society that woke idiots pretend to want though.
Posted on 10/23/21 at 3:19 pm to UndercoverBryologist
Yeah, it's not woke at all; it's legitimately anti-establishment.
Posted on 10/23/21 at 3:22 pm to HabaneroBuck
quote:This.
Yeah, it's not woke at all; it's legitimately anti-establishment
The woke progressives are full on pro-establishment.
This movie rejects it entirely.
Posted on 10/23/21 at 3:24 pm to HabaneroBuck
quote:
Yeah, it's not woke at all; it's legitimately anti-establishment.
I think you may be trying to re-contextualize it from your own point of view.
It's a fairly straightforward depiction of what left-leaning views on the failure of American society are. "People being sedated by capitalism. The pillars of American society being corrupt."
It's okay to still like it. And it can be re-contextualized to match corresponding right-leaning views of on the ills of society as well. But it's fairly straightfoward in its left-of-center views.
Edit: There is something to "Horseshoe Theory" in that the extreme sides of both sides of the political spectrum are closer than they would think in terms of their main view...that American society is corrupt and needs to be overthrown.
This post was edited on 10/23/21 at 3:28 pm
Posted on 10/23/21 at 3:39 pm to UndercoverBryologist
quote:
I think you may be trying to re-contextualize it from your own point of view.
Not quite. I know Carpenter pictures himself as a lefty, hippy, protester type, but at his heart he's really a libertarian.
The messages contained in the film present a form of mind control over the masses utilizing print media (not conservative), television media (not conservative), politics (mixed bag), and law enforcement (mixed bag). While I concede that Carpenter is distrustful of religion and a law-and-order based society, he also is clearly distrustful of people telling him what to do with his money, thoughts, and healthcare.
The modern term "woke" evokes a form of cancel culture in which a hyper political correctness dominates the zeitgeist. I cannot fathom any way in which that would be used to describe what he is going for in the film.
Posted on 10/23/21 at 3:42 pm to HabaneroBuck
quote:
Not quite. I know Carpenter pictures himself as a lefty, hippy, protester type, but at his heart he's really a libertarian.
I get what you are saying but They Live is pretty critical of capitalism. I still love the movie.
Posted on 10/23/21 at 3:48 pm to UndercoverBryologist
It was a very strong anti-Reagan era consumerism work when it came out in the late 80s, but over time, it morphed into an gigantic anti-leftist, anti-authoritarion, anti-establishment work, much like Orwell's 1984 did... Which was originally written as an anti-right wing, anti fascist novel coming off Nazi Germany and WWII.
As the culture changed (especially lately) and the left became the fascists and the right became what would be considered classic liberals, everything flipped, including how these films and books are now viewed.
Either way, They Live is a pretty genius work and one that should be shown alomg with 1984 as required reading/viewing in every high school.
It also can't be understated how great Piper was in this movie. Just watch his acting next time and tell me he wasn't the best on screen former wrestler maybe ever. He should have been a much bigger star in movies and TV.
As the culture changed (especially lately) and the left became the fascists and the right became what would be considered classic liberals, everything flipped, including how these films and books are now viewed.
Either way, They Live is a pretty genius work and one that should be shown alomg with 1984 as required reading/viewing in every high school.
It also can't be understated how great Piper was in this movie. Just watch his acting next time and tell me he wasn't the best on screen former wrestler maybe ever. He should have been a much bigger star in movies and TV.
This post was edited on 10/23/21 at 3:56 pm
Posted on 10/23/21 at 3:53 pm to Dire Wolf
quote:
I get what you are saying but They Live is pretty critical of capitalism. I still love the movie.
I really don't see it as a condemnation of capitalism as a whole so much as a condemnation of the opiate effect that unending consumerism can have on a people. For instance, he is clearly critical of the mindless advice that W gave to Americans shortly after 9/11 took place:
quote:
"Get down to Disney World in Florida," he said. "Take your families and enjoy life, the way we want it to be enjoyed."
Substituting facing the reality of a situation with a call to consumerism is inherently dishonest. I would agree with that much. The message is that the politicians are in control, so don't worry too much about things for yourself.
So, again, I agree that the message can be applied to the Republican "War on Terror" as well as the current Covid insanity.
Posted on 10/23/21 at 3:55 pm to Jack Ruby
quote:This.
It was a very anti-Reagan era consumerism in the 80s when it came out but over time, which would obviously be from a left-leaning viewpoint, albeit quite subtle.
But it morphed into an gigantic anti-leftist, anti-authoritarion, anti-establishment work, much like Orwell's 1984 did... Which was originally written as an anti-right wing, anti fascist work coming off Nazi Germany and WWIi.
As the culture changed (especially lately) and the left became the fascists and the right became what would be considered classic liberals, everything flipped, including how these films and books are now viewed.
A good example of how it has shifted is Drifter in the movie.
quote:
Drifter: What's the threat? We all sell out every day, might as well be on the winning team.
In the 80s, he would have been the wealthy right wing media mogul.
In modern times, in reality, that guy is pushing progressivism because, as he says, “might as well be on the winning team”.
We could list 50 examples of corporate consumerism loving CEOs, who have more cash than the entire US populace, who push progressivism full bore through their businesses.
The largest corporations in the USA, or globally, are very publicly progressive.
The opposite of that is a fraction. Hell, even companies that push the patriotic angle, such as Black Rifle Coffee Company, still go heavily progressive.
This is getting overly political though.
This post was edited on 10/23/21 at 4:04 pm
Posted on 10/23/21 at 4:00 pm to UndercoverBryologist
quote:
I think you may be trying to re-contextualize it from your own point of view.
You started your thread on the basis of you re-contextualizing a movie made over 30 years ago to fit a very current state of societal outlook, or what you imagine to be a current societal outlook. Being critical of capitalism, corporations, and wealth disparity isn't being woke, it's being critical. These criticisms have been around as long as the idea of capital.
Posted on 10/23/21 at 4:04 pm to Jay Are
quote:
You started your thread on the basis of you re-contextualizing a movie made over 30 years ago to fit a very current state of societal outlook, or what you imagine to be a current societal outlook. Being critical of capitalism, corporations, and wealth disparity isn't being woke, it's being critical. These criticisms have been around as long as the idea of capital.
The term "being woke" or just "woke" is not new. It entered the popular lexicon in the last 10 years, but it has been around in left-of-center circles for 100 years.
In any case, even if the word itself is anachronistic for 1988, the literal definition of "woke", namely "to be aware of social inequalities" fits the film's narrative.
Merriam Webster's definition: LINK
Edit: Actually, a better definition that fits the usage of the term better is that woke entails some sort of symbolic lifting of the vail to view hidden societal inequality and oppression. That's not my definition but a definition that seemingly fits what people who use the phrase "stay woke" mean. And it fits Nada's story in They Live, and judging by the stated intentions of the filmmakers (as was already stated, Carpenter views himself as something of a hippie), it was the intention of the original filmmakers back in 1988.
This post was edited on 10/23/21 at 4:13 pm
Posted on 10/23/21 at 4:09 pm to HabaneroBuck
quote:
Not quite. I know Carpenter pictures himself as a lefty, hippy, protester type, but at his heart he's really a libertarian.
I'm pretty sure that it was in the recent Movies That Made Us episode on Halloween where someone flat-out said that the movie was an attack on the Reagan era.
Posted on 10/23/21 at 4:18 pm to UndercoverBryologist
quote:No one disagrees with this.
it was the intention of the original filmmakers back in 1988.
It was clearly a critique of the Reagan era.
People just disagree in that it applies the same way now.
Posted on 10/23/21 at 4:21 pm to Scruffy
quote:
People just disagree in that it applies the same way now.
Well, my original inquiry was intended to be specific to the context of 1988.
I guess, since 1988, the film as turned from a "woke" story into a "red-pilled" story.
This post was edited on 10/23/21 at 4:22 pm
Posted on 10/23/21 at 4:35 pm to UndercoverBryologist
Can people not watch movies without getting triggered in some fashion these days? I watched They Live when it was released in the theatres and dozens times since. I've never thought at any point it was "woke" or any other stupid arse saying people use ad nauseam these days.
Posted on 10/23/21 at 4:37 pm to YNWA
quote:
Can people not watch movies without getting triggered in some fashion these days? I watched They Live when it was released in the theatres and dozens times since. I've never thought at any point it was "woke" or any other stupid arse saying people use ad nauseam these days
Normally, I’d be the first to agree with you, but They Live is so transparent in its overall message that it kind of invites such critical analysis.
Posted on 10/23/21 at 4:53 pm to UndercoverBryologist
Woke is quickly overtaking Cuck for most over/incorrectly used terms.
Posted on 10/23/21 at 5:37 pm to UndercoverBryologist
Like the “woke” crowd some of you claim to despise, it feels like y’all are out to overanalyze and ruin everything just the same as they are.
Posted on 10/23/21 at 5:40 pm to TotesMcGotes
quote:
Like the “woke” crowd some of you claim to despise, it feels like y’all are out to overanalyze and ruin everything just the same as they are.
You made the mistake that I was casting value judgments. I was merely analyzing the nakedly transparent message of the movie. (They Live is not subtle.)
This isn’t me getting bent out of shape about a female 007 in the new Bond movie. I’m talking about a movie with a clear as day message.
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