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Godfather 2 plot hole. Who left the drapes open in Michaels bedroom

Posted on 11/23/17 at 10:43 pm
Posted by RD Dawg
Atlanta
Member since Sep 2012
27303 posts
Posted on 11/23/17 at 10:43 pm
The night of the assassination attempt?

Highly doubt it's Fredo. He completely denied that he knew of the assassination and called Johnny Ola a liar on the phone.

Had to be someone else on the inside.

Rocco?

Neri?
Posted by randomways
North Carolina
Member since Aug 2013
12988 posts
Posted on 11/23/17 at 11:05 pm to
Kay, of course. She obviously hates Michael. She's the one who called attention to the drapes to lure Michael into getting right up to the window to close them. And it's very suspicious she was lying in bed, beneath the line of fire, rather than just wandering aimlessly around the room for no reason whatsoever.


Anyway, it was Fredo. He can lie and deny all he wants, and can maybe even convince himself, but he grew up in a Mafia family. He knows the score. He may be stupid, but he's not that stupid.
This post was edited on 11/23/17 at 11:08 pm
Posted by Bench McElroy
Member since Nov 2009
33943 posts
Posted on 11/23/17 at 11:09 pm to
This site makes the claim that it was Rocco. LINK

It particularly makes sense when you consider the fact that Michael sent Rocco to kill Roth which was essentially a suicide mission. There was no way he would have gotten out of there alive. The Roth hit was Michael's way of getting revenge on Rocco for leaving the drapes open.
This post was edited on 11/23/17 at 11:11 pm
Posted by RD Dawg
Atlanta
Member since Sep 2012
27303 posts
Posted on 11/23/17 at 11:15 pm to
quote:

Anyway, it was Fredo. He can lie and deny all he wants, and can maybe even convince himself


So why did he call Johnny Ola a liar? Did he slit the throats of the gunmen?

Nah,wasn't him...way too much of a coward and too stupid to carry it out
This post was edited on 11/23/17 at 11:16 pm
Posted by RD Dawg
Atlanta
Member since Sep 2012
27303 posts
Posted on 11/23/17 at 11:19 pm to
Makes sense in explaining why it wasn't Fredo

quote:

Fredo with all his plans? Would Roth put all his eggs in one basket? Could Fredo quickly and quietly kill two assassins? Would even someone as dumb as Fredo not realize that opening drapes in his brother's bedroom while Kay was asleep and Michael was away was a precursor to a hit? I think not. If Fredo did open the drapes he had to know it was a hit. And even if we think he was lying to Michael when he claimed ignorance of plans for Michael's murder, when he spoke angrily on the phone to Johnny Ola it's obvious that Fredo truly didn't know of Roth/Ola's plans. So whatever Fredo did he (a) didn't know that Michael's murder was imminent and (b) didn't open the drapes.
Posted by randomways
North Carolina
Member since Aug 2013
12988 posts
Posted on 11/23/17 at 11:21 pm to
quote:


So why did he call Johnny Ola a liar? Did he slit the throats of the gunmen?

Nah,wasn't him...way too much of a coward and too stupid to carry it out


Because he had no intention of ever admitting it out loud. He doesn't know who is listening, and, as you point out, he's a coward, so he isn't going to own up to his own actions afterwards. It's not unusual for people to deny deny deny after the fact even when the other person knows the truth. Hell, it's an indispensable part of the political process in this country nowadays. You see it in children all the time, and Fredo is, in many ways, a perpetually stunted man-child.
Posted by randomways
North Carolina
Member since Aug 2013
12988 posts
Posted on 11/23/17 at 11:23 pm to
quote:



It particularly makes sense when you consider the fact that Michael sent Rocco to kill Roth which was essentially a suicide mission. There was no way he would have gotten out of there alive. The Roth hit was Michael's way of getting revenge on Rocco for leaving the drapes open.


That doesn't make sense. The only reason he didn't get out alive was the fall of the government and the military going to Roth's room. Roth had no remaining guards, the staff was celebrating the new year, and the hospital had a large, open floor-plan. Michael couldn't possibly have timed it so perfectly on purpose. And if he intended ROcco to fail, why would Michael use someone who was known to be working for him and accompanied him everywhere publicly?
This post was edited on 11/23/17 at 11:25 pm
Posted by RD Dawg
Atlanta
Member since Sep 2012
27303 posts
Posted on 11/23/17 at 11:25 pm to
So you really think he could have slit the gunmen's throats when he couldn't even get a shot off to protect his father?

Nah,ain't buying it.
Posted by randomways
North Carolina
Member since Aug 2013
12988 posts
Posted on 11/23/17 at 11:30 pm to
quote:

So you really think he could have slit the gunmen's throats when he couldn't even get a shot off to protect his father?

Nah,ain't buying it.


No, actually, I think other people -- ones who didn't have access to the house -- did it. It's heavily implied, in fact, that there was a second set of killers. There's no suggestion whatsoever that Fredo killed them. They were fall guys, people Roth/Ola didn't mind risking in an up-close assault at the house and didn't mind killing afterwards.
This post was edited on 11/23/17 at 11:32 pm
Posted by RD Dawg
Atlanta
Member since Sep 2012
27303 posts
Posted on 11/23/17 at 11:32 pm to
quote:

That doesn't make sense. The only reason he didn't get out alive was the fall of the government and the military going to Roth's room


Huh?Rocco was sent to kill Roth at the airport...hes not the one in Cuba in the hospital.
Posted by RD Dawg
Atlanta
Member since Sep 2012
27303 posts
Posted on 11/23/17 at 11:33 pm to
Nm
This post was edited on 11/23/17 at 11:34 pm
Posted by randomways
North Carolina
Member since Aug 2013
12988 posts
Posted on 11/23/17 at 11:35 pm to
quote:


Huh?Rocco was sent to kill Roth at the airport...hes not the one in Cuba in the hospital.


Ah. Mixed up the two. My bad. Haven't seen the movie in a few years. But my original point remains.
Posted by RD Dawg
Atlanta
Member since Sep 2012
27303 posts
Posted on 11/23/17 at 11:39 pm to
quote:

did it. It's heavily implied, in fact, that there was a second set of killers


Would have been pretty freaking difficult to get out of the compund...anyway,unless FFC wants to fess up not sure there will ever be clarity on the issue.
Posted by randomways
North Carolina
Member since Aug 2013
12988 posts
Posted on 11/23/17 at 11:45 pm to
quote:


Would have been pretty freaking difficult to get out of the compund...anyway,unless FFC wants to fess up not sure there will ever be clarity on the issue.


You mean the compound the shooters got into in the first place and close enough to the house to recognize who was in the window and start shooting? Also, the one they managed to almost make it out of again. All the second set had to do was wait for the first ones to return to the rendezvous place, kill 'em, and leave. There's really no need to bring in a second traitor that was never alluded at.
Posted by RD Dawg
Atlanta
Member since Sep 2012
27303 posts
Posted on 11/23/17 at 11:57 pm to
quote:

You mean the compound the shooters got into in the first place and close enough to the house to recognize who was in the window and start shooting?


Yes,they obviously had help getting into the compound and getting out would have been much more difficult after the attempt.

quote:

There's really no need to bring in a second traitor that was never alluded at.


Sure I can and I'm not the only one who raised the question.

Fredo was way too incompetent to pull it off.
This post was edited on 11/24/17 at 7:44 am
Posted by randomways
North Carolina
Member since Aug 2013
12988 posts
Posted on 11/24/17 at 12:05 am to
quote:


Sure I can and I'm not the only one who raised the question.

Fredo was way too incompetent to pull it off.


He didn't "pull it off." He had a very specific role. I haven't argued that he did anything other than help the shooters gain access to the compoudn and -- a much, much easier task -- managed to open the drapes. Ola and Roth, on the other hand, are extremely competent and they did pull it off, at least to the extent that they scared the hell out of Michael, which, for what they were trying to accomplish, worked almost as well as managing to kill him. Fredo had no role after the initial circumstances.

I honestly don't care if other people have asked the question. It's a valid question, certainly, but that doesn't mean all answers make equal sense. Conspiracy theorists have been making untenable claims about movies since forever. Lots of people think Harry and Draco suffered from fervent homosexual tension between them. It's just how moviegoers roll.
Posted by Spock's Eyebrow
Member since May 2012
12300 posts
Posted on 11/24/17 at 12:16 am to
quote:

Makes sense in explaining why it wasn't Fredo



If Fredo didn't do any of that, what exactly did he do besides hitting up sex clubs in Cuba with that Sicilian messenger boy, Johnny Ola?
Posted by mizzoubuckeyeiowa
Member since Nov 2015
35549 posts
Posted on 11/24/17 at 12:30 am to
quote:

Kay, of course. She obviously hates Michael.


Diane Keaton sucks the life out of all men in movies so it makes sense.
Posted by Dr RC
The Money Pit
Member since Aug 2011
58084 posts
Posted on 11/24/17 at 3:23 am to
quote:

Lots of people think Harry and Draco suffered from fervent homosexual tension between them.


Posted by RD Dawg
Atlanta
Member since Sep 2012
27303 posts
Posted on 11/24/17 at 8:02 am to
quote:

He didn't "pull it off." He had a very specific role. I haven't argued that he did anything other than help the shooters gain access to the compoudn


You argued a 2nd set of killers existed and escaped after the attempt.Ill still argue it would have been virtually impossible.

Whoever killed them had to be on the inside and Michael discusses it with Tom afterword

quote:

TOM

If we catch these guys do you think we'll be able to find out who's backing them?

MICHAEL

That's not the catch -- unless I'm very wrong, they're dead already. They're killed by somebody close to us -- inside. Very, very scared they botched it.

TOM

What about your people ROCCO and NERI? You don't think that they had something to do with this.

MICHAEL

You see -- all our people are business men, their loyalty is based on that. Now, one thing that I learned from Pop was to try to think as people around you think. Now on that basis, anything's possible.

So Michael certainly suspects an inside man. Given that we later find out Fredo betrayed Michael, that most likely scenario does seem to be that Fredo himself killed the assassins.

To reiterate however, all of this is just speculation, as it is never confirmed in either the films or books.


This post was edited on 11/24/17 at 8:04 am
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