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re: Best Star Trek series?
Posted on 9/24/18 at 12:39 pm to Parmen
Posted on 9/24/18 at 12:39 pm to Parmen
quote:
I always valued your opinions like I would value dog shite, so I'm not surprised you said this about TNG.
Showing your immaturity as always.
One day you will grow up...though I doubt you will get much wiser.
0
Posted on 9/24/18 at 12:41 pm to Ace Midnight
I think my issue was DS9 was they had an 0-5, then 0-6 running the entire war.
My immersion could never get past that.
IT was a well written and outstanding series overall. But too many immersion details were hard to get past
My immersion could never get past that.
IT was a well written and outstanding series overall. But too many immersion details were hard to get past
Posted on 9/24/18 at 12:53 pm to hogNsinceReagan
Entire body of work TNG. But DS9 had higher peaks.
Posted on 9/24/18 at 12:57 pm to elprez00
TNG is the only ST series I've ever watched (except for the new reboot movies), but I kinda loved TNG. It used to come on every night at like 10 or 10:30, and I'd watch it when I went to bed. I used to really enjoy some of those episodes.
Posted on 9/24/18 at 1:01 pm to CocomoLSU
TNG, especially early TNG, was elevated by Patrick Stewart. So much so that at times you catch yourself saying “this show doesn’t deserve this performance.” It got better, but every once in a while an episode would come on where it just left you saying “Bravo.”
That never, ever happened with TOS.
That never, ever happened with TOS.
Posted on 9/24/18 at 1:07 pm to asurob1
quote:
I think my issue was DS9 was they had an 0-5, then 0-6 running the entire war.
I get that, but it was "point of the spear" - and they needed The Prophets, so might as well have Sisko be the operational commander.
While (real) Kirk always seemed stymied by higher echelons in a realistic way (he had to work around them or get forgiveness after he had done what was necessary), sort of Patton-esque, how many O-8 to O-10 decisions was Picard allowed to make about Q, the Borg and a whole raft of things? The Enterprise is the Federation Flagship for most purposes. For purposes of the Dominion War, DS9 was the Federation Flagship.
Plus - what entertainment value would it have had to see the CUB/BUB briefings, powerpoint and all that stuff just to pass it off to Sisko to get things done? They were just skipping the middleman.
Posted on 9/24/18 at 1:10 pm to elprez00
quote:
It got better, but every once in a while an episode would come on where it just left you saying “Bravo.” That never, ever happened with TOS.
I just disagree. I don't know how you can watch "The City on the Edge of Forever" - even if you didn't watch anything else within the genre and not say, "Bravo." That episode was essentially "too good" for television of that era - being more at home at the present time, from a quality of writing, directing and acting. Pitch perfect.
Posted on 9/24/18 at 1:11 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
The City on the Edge of Forever
Point Taken Ace. But Stewart is the best actor to ever don the jumpsuit.
Posted on 9/24/18 at 1:21 pm to elprez00
quote:
But Stewart is the best actor to ever don the jumpsuit.
No disagreement there.
Shatner was probably the best star trek character as Kirk, but he was certainly no stewart as an actor.
Posted on 9/24/18 at 1:51 pm to elprez00
quote:
But Stewart is the best actor to ever don the jumpsuit.
Probably - particularly a lead actor with supporting chops. And he nailed the character perfectly.
Now, did he play Picard better than TOS' "Big 3 Plus 1"? I don't think so. For that matter, Spiner's Data was as good as Stewart's Picard.
DS9 - particularly the persistent civilians Quark (Shimerman) and Garak (Robinson) - had better overall acting, just from top to bottom, IMHO. Once you get past Stewart and Spiner, the TNG acting is pretty *meh* compared to DS9. Now, head and shoulders above Voyager and Enterprise. Voyager's real strengths were the Doctor, Tuvok and the outfits worn by Seven of Nine.
Enterprise just didn't have anyone approaching those levels, with Phlox being about the only one any of the other shows would want to poach as their doctor (and I'm looking really hard at you "The Next Generation") - and maybe T'Pol over any of the TNG's bridge crew not named Data or Worf or really anyone on Voyager other than Tuvok or the Doctor.
That's where DS9 shines - like a mini-dream team (after TOS) - no real weak spots on the main cast (Jake, maybe), plus a powerful, consistent guest/supporting cast.
AND, if you're going to slam Jake, Next Genners, we're going to have to bring up Wesley --- again.
Posted on 9/24/18 at 1:56 pm to asurob1
quote:
I think my issue was DS9 was they had an 0-5, then 0-6 running the entire war.
My immersion could never get past that.
IT was a well written and outstanding series overall. But too many immersion details were hard to get past
I get what saying about Siko's command decisions but his situation was extremely unique. Being the Emissary to the Prophets and his relationship with the Bajorans put Star fleet in a position that by their own definition didn't quite know what to do with....
DS9 is also a remote station where the top brass don't hang to rub elbows with this important people...Dr. Bashir chose this assignment to practice "Frontier Medicine"..
Has Star fleet promoted him higher than Captain, he would have had to leave the post as he would have been over-ranked for the job...
Also, in times of war, front line officers are frequently required to make tough decisions all the time so it wasn;t too much of a strech since Sisko had been the moist experienced officer of that region...
It wasn't clean, but believable considering the unique situation Sisko had...
Posted on 9/24/18 at 2:01 pm to elprez00
And let's take the obvious "guest" strength of TNG - Delancie's Q. A brilliant, remarkable performance that is one of the rare, series-long threads of either of the first 2 series. Now, it is highly derivative of Campbell's Squire of Gothos character from TOS. And we got to know a lot about the continuum through the series. That was really good science fiction writing to support that character and race.
But, let's see what DS9 had to offer - I've mentioned the female Changeling, who was outstanding. You also had Weyoun (Jeffrey Combs) as a persistent, charming foe. Supports like Damar (Casey Biggs), Kai Winn (Louise Fletcher), and DS9 developed these characters extensively.
TNG had virtually no persistent characters that weren't part of the crew, outside Q and a handful of Klingons. And their "prosthetic forehead alien" race of the week was hit and miss - ranging from outstanding to meh (or worse). OF course, that is also true of DS9 when they had a 1-week guest, but they didn't have to rely on them as heavily as TNG, TOS or Voyager did.
But, let's see what DS9 had to offer - I've mentioned the female Changeling, who was outstanding. You also had Weyoun (Jeffrey Combs) as a persistent, charming foe. Supports like Damar (Casey Biggs), Kai Winn (Louise Fletcher), and DS9 developed these characters extensively.
TNG had virtually no persistent characters that weren't part of the crew, outside Q and a handful of Klingons. And their "prosthetic forehead alien" race of the week was hit and miss - ranging from outstanding to meh (or worse). OF course, that is also true of DS9 when they had a 1-week guest, but they didn't have to rely on them as heavily as TNG, TOS or Voyager did.
Posted on 9/24/18 at 2:02 pm to Ace Midnight
mmm T'pol....I'd take her mirror uni over seven of nine's catsuits any day of the week.
Posted on 9/24/18 at 2:02 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
quote:
It got better, but every once in a while an episode would come on where it just left you saying “Bravo.” That never, ever happened with TOS.
I just disagree. I don't know how you can watch "The City on the Edge of Forever" - even if you didn't watch anything else within the genre and not say, "Bravo." That episode was essentially "too good" for television of that era - being more at home at the present time, from a quality of writing, directing and acting. Pitch perfect.
I'll Add "The Tholian Web" where Kirk was lost with the Defiant phased out and Spock assumed command, with McCoy questioning his every decision until Kirk's "Final Orders" were play...Excellent.
"The Galileo 7" was another great episode..
The last one I'll add was "Let this be your Last Battlefield" where Frank Gorshin was half-black on one side and his opponent was half black on the other side of his face and proved that their racism and intolerance destroyed their world...sensational for the time.
Posted on 9/24/18 at 2:05 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
TNG had virtually no persistent characters that weren't part of the crew, outside Q and a handful of Klingons. And their "prosthetic forehead alien" race of the week was hit and miss - ranging from outstanding to meh (or worse). OF course, that is also true of DS9 when they had a 1-week guest, but they didn't have to rely on them as heavily as TNG, TOS or Voyager did.
This makes me curious if you ever spent anytime watching Discovery.
The strength of the show was the persistent antagonist in my opinion. Rather then a bunch of one off stories with an over arching story line it was a show that built it's story week to week like book chapters.
It was a different take on Star Trek, but one I actually enjoyed. No filler episodes either which was nice.
Posted on 9/24/18 at 2:05 pm to CU_Tigers4life
quote:
I'll Add "The Tholian Web" where Kirk was lost with the Defiant phased out and Spock assumed command, with McCoy questioning his every decision until Kirk's "Final Orders" were play...Excellent.
Another gem from the much-maligned, budget starved Season 3. One of the best written episodes of the entire run.
quote:
"The Galileo 7" was another great episode..
True, but the first season was almost uniformly excellent - just a couple of *meh* in the first, really 40 or so.
quote:
"Let this be your Last Battlefield" where Frank Gorshin was half-black on one side and his opponent was half black on the other side of his face and proved that their racism and intolerance destroyed their world...sensational for the time.
While I felt the execution could have been better, that was one of the best messaging shows they had. Gorshin was fantastic. Yet another Season 3 gem, the effective mocking of racism was palpable.
Posted on 9/24/18 at 2:06 pm to CU_Tigers4life
I had forgotten about how good the Tholian Web was...good call.
I loved how Enterprise did the call back to it in the mirror universe....also very well done (and ironically enough aired "after" Enterprise had been canceled). Certainly the best of that series.
I loved how Enterprise did the call back to it in the mirror universe....also very well done (and ironically enough aired "after" Enterprise had been canceled). Certainly the best of that series.
Posted on 9/24/18 at 2:11 pm to asurob1
One off Shatner's best episodes outside City of the Edge of Forever was "Obsession" where he blamed him self on his first assignment for freezing momentarily to fire at the cloud creature that killed a majority of the crew of the USS Farragut and faced with the same creature as Captain, he was almost made to step down by Dr. McCoy and Spock and nearly ruined his career at wanting to kill the beast..
Posted on 9/24/18 at 2:19 pm to asurob1
quote:
if you ever spent anytime watching Discovery
No and no plans.
Posted on 9/24/18 at 2:20 pm to CU_Tigers4life
quote:
One off Shatner's best episodes outside City of the Edge of Forever was "Obsession"
Shatner catches a lot of crap for stage techniques he used (quite effectively at times) that were sometimes over-the-top for a close in television shot, but he owned the character. Wore it effortlessly as an old t-shirt.
What about Court Martial? He was fantastic in that.
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