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re: Wimbledon Men's Championship - (1) Djokovic vs (2) Federer 8AM CST ESPN
Posted on 7/14/19 at 4:25 pm to Bench McElroy
Posted on 7/14/19 at 4:25 pm to Bench McElroy
Point taken. But in the old days guys were serving up 35-40 aces.
1
Posted on 7/14/19 at 4:45 pm to lsufan112001
Mates, I'm absolutely devastated. I wanted Fed to win 18 so bad that everything else since then has been icing on the cake. I was totally at peace with him losing today, especially after the great win the other day. But, the fact that he served with double match point, and that it's probably the end of his winning majors.... 
Fed fans, is there a worse loss for you? U.S. Open 2011 didn't bum me out too much. 2008 Wimbledon was kind of a circus match with the weather and I felt Fed fluked his way back into it. Australian Open 2009 was probably the only other one that stung that bad for me.
Fed fans, is there a worse loss for you? U.S. Open 2011 didn't bum me out too much. 2008 Wimbledon was kind of a circus match with the weather and I felt Fed fluked his way back into it. Australian Open 2009 was probably the only other one that stung that bad for me.
Posted on 7/14/19 at 4:49 pm to Bunk Moreland
I was rooting for Fed too. It’s just unreal the level of tennis displayed today. I would have felt bad for whoever lost that match, especially with the retarded tie break rule.
Posted on 7/14/19 at 5:20 pm to Bunk Moreland
question for the fed fans
Is it conceivable to you that Novak might be considered on the same GOAT plane as Roger, or is that blasphemous to think of bc 37 year old Roger proved to be near 32 year old Novak?
Is it conceivable to you that Novak might be considered on the same GOAT plane as Roger, or is that blasphemous to think of bc 37 year old Roger proved to be near 32 year old Novak?
Posted on 7/14/19 at 5:32 pm to The Egg
Not blasphemous at all. Especially if he hits 20 or so majors and has head to head advantages on Rafa and Fed. He would also have 3 wins in Wimbledon finals against the grass GOAT and one head to head win at Roland Garros against the clay GOAT. If he goes on a Nole slam run now and hits 19 in Paris next year, it might be time to crown him.
I would be perfectly happy if nextgen kept all of these numbers the way they are right now.
I would be perfectly happy if nextgen kept all of these numbers the way they are right now.
Posted on 7/14/19 at 5:45 pm to Bunk Moreland
Why are you so hung up on calling him GOAT? As it’s absolute? Because it is not. I mean it seems that GOAT’s are only from last 10-15 years and nobody else gets mentioned, no matter the sport or list.
And on Grass i would take a prime Sampras over a prime Fed any day.
And on Grass i would take a prime Sampras over a prime Fed any day.
This post was edited on 7/14/19 at 5:55 pm
Posted on 7/14/19 at 5:53 pm to sms151t
Only because people get hung up on it and want you to pick out of the three. It's just so interesting because 95% of tennis fans seem to be Fedtards or Rafa fanboys and have been arguing for a decade plus about GOAT, meanwhile another guy playing with them might be better.
I am starting to question whether three guys playing at the same time can be the three best ever. I mean, really? Is there some frickery going on here? I understand the argument that the Aussie wasn't that important in some eras, so some players' major count is down a bit. But, the longevity of the domination of these three freakshows is hard to argue against.
I only buy the court homogenization argument inasmuch as Wimbledon has been slowed down and allowed guys like Rafa and Nole to win them when they might not have in the '80s. Yes, there is no carpet now, but that is not affecting major tournament numbers.
I am starting to question whether three guys playing at the same time can be the three best ever. I mean, really? Is there some frickery going on here? I understand the argument that the Aussie wasn't that important in some eras, so some players' major count is down a bit. But, the longevity of the domination of these three freakshows is hard to argue against.
I only buy the court homogenization argument inasmuch as Wimbledon has been slowed down and allowed guys like Rafa and Nole to win them when they might not have in the '80s. Yes, there is no carpet now, but that is not affecting major tournament numbers.
This post was edited on 7/14/19 at 5:57 pm
Posted on 7/14/19 at 5:57 pm to Bunk Moreland
The one thing I think that really gets overlooked is the 32 seeds now. If you had the 16 of old some of these draws would be harder than they are for the top guys. But give credit, these guys go through.
Again it’s an argument that there’s no true answer to.
Again it’s an argument that there’s no true answer to.
Posted on 7/14/19 at 6:54 pm to Bunk Moreland
Surface seems to play such a big role in this debate.
The French and Wimbeldon reward such different styles, for example Sampras never came close to winning the French, but dominated Wimbeldon. Rafa dominates the clay in France with 11 titles but only one at Wimbeldon.
The Aussie and US Open would seem to be the more equalizing surfaces, but then you get the outlier like Borg who won 5 Wimbleldons and 6 French but zero US or Aussie titles....very curious.
So while I would say look to who has had the most cumulative success at all four majors to show who is the best overall it's still hard to pinpoint even using that matrix.
None of the four that one would usually include in the GOAT argument....Sampras, Federer, Nadal or Joker have multiple wins at all four of the grand slams. Sampras never came close at the French and the latter 3 each have only one on what most would consider their weakest surface.
It's a wide open argument IMHO.
The French and Wimbeldon reward such different styles, for example Sampras never came close to winning the French, but dominated Wimbeldon. Rafa dominates the clay in France with 11 titles but only one at Wimbeldon.
The Aussie and US Open would seem to be the more equalizing surfaces, but then you get the outlier like Borg who won 5 Wimbleldons and 6 French but zero US or Aussie titles....very curious.
So while I would say look to who has had the most cumulative success at all four majors to show who is the best overall it's still hard to pinpoint even using that matrix.
None of the four that one would usually include in the GOAT argument....Sampras, Federer, Nadal or Joker have multiple wins at all four of the grand slams. Sampras never came close at the French and the latter 3 each have only one on what most would consider their weakest surface.
It's a wide open argument IMHO.
Posted on 7/14/19 at 7:09 pm to Tiger Ugly
Good post. Rafa has two Wimbledon and only one Aussie, but I get your point.
Posted on 7/14/19 at 7:27 pm to Tiger Ugly
quote:
Sampras never came close to winning the French, but dominated Wimbeldon.
Except he made a semi and 4 qtrs. To me that’s close. It’s not like he never made week 2.
Posted on 7/14/19 at 7:30 pm to sms151t
I was never a Pete fan, but one thing I feel deep down is that Pete's A+ game is the GOAT level. It seems that people now feel that is Djokovic.
If you told me in 2002 that three players would pass Pete's major total by 2019 I would have said you're insane.
If you told me in 2002 that three players would pass Pete's major total by 2019 I would have said you're insane.
Posted on 7/14/19 at 7:32 pm to Bunk Moreland
The other thing for me is novak has won every masters and slam. That means the guy has won every major tournament on the circuit and no other man in the modern era can say that. If he gets to 19-20 it’s not inconceivable to crown him especially if you get into the arguments about fed winning a lot of his early slams in an era with some weaker players. If he somehow bags a second French it starts to get interesting. I don’t like federer at all but you can at least respect the mans game and numbers. Novak is slowly getting there but gets absolutely no respect - perhaps that will some point turn for him.
Posted on 7/14/19 at 7:39 pm to TigerDog83
honestly, my wish for Djokovic is that he fully takes on the heel role of the big 3 instead of trying to break thru the popularity contest.
that means completely foregoing the post match celebration, which I'm glad he didn't do today, and just put every ounce of focus on winning titles, majors, breaking the #1 weeks record, and just destroying everything in his path.
he is the most mentally tough player on the tour by a wide margin and today showed his guts and glory.
you can't deny novak if he holds most of the most important records.
that means completely foregoing the post match celebration, which I'm glad he didn't do today, and just put every ounce of focus on winning titles, majors, breaking the #1 weeks record, and just destroying everything in his path.
he is the most mentally tough player on the tour by a wide margin and today showed his guts and glory.
you can't deny novak if he holds most of the most important records.
Posted on 7/14/19 at 7:42 pm to sms151t
I am not sure about prime Sampras being better than prime fed, and are we talking grass alone? The serves are very close - two of the best servers of all time, but I would say Fed is easily the better defender and better off the ground. Who is the better volleyer would be debatable, and I don't think you would find many that would say that Sampras is superior to Fed in the return of serve dept.
Two of my absolute favorite players of all-time, but I would give the nod to Fed if we are talking all surfaces. On grass it is not so clear, but I would say one of those two is the greatest grass court player of all time.
I wish I could see Prime Pete vs. Djokovic at Wimbledon.
Two of my absolute favorite players of all-time, but I would give the nod to Fed if we are talking all surfaces. On grass it is not so clear, but I would say one of those two is the greatest grass court player of all time.
I wish I could see Prime Pete vs. Djokovic at Wimbledon.
Posted on 7/14/19 at 7:45 pm to BigPapiDoesItAgain
Prime Pete on grass was devastating he would 4/6 times beat Fed on Grass. Sampras would cruise and find the one return game break you. His prime serve was unreturnable especially in big points. His 2nd serve is as nasty as most guys first, especially in crucial points.
The guy who should complain the loudest is Lendl. He would’ve won multiple Wimbledon’s with way seeds and conditions are now
What Lendl did to remake his game to get to 2 Finals is amazing
The guy who should complain the loudest is Lendl. He would’ve won multiple Wimbledon’s with way seeds and conditions are now
What Lendl did to remake his game to get to 2 Finals is amazing
This post was edited on 7/14/19 at 7:53 pm
Posted on 7/14/19 at 7:56 pm to TigerDog83
quote:
Novak is slowly getting there but gets absolutely no respect
I may start defending him for this reason
Posted on 7/14/19 at 8:00 pm to The Egg
quote:
he is the most mentally tough player on the tour by a wide margin and today showed his guts and glory.
I think the average person has no clue what it's like to have an entire crowd against you in an individual sport.
Posted on 7/14/19 at 8:01 pm to bayoucracka
it's honestly why im partial to him over fedal
most fedal fans I interact with online or IRL don't like him solely bc of the threat that he puts on both of them.
the threat is becoming more and more real now
the fact that he's younger and has the H2H advantage against both really kills them.
most fedal fans I interact with online or IRL don't like him solely bc of the threat that he puts on both of them.
the threat is becoming more and more real now
the fact that he's younger and has the H2H advantage against both really kills them.
Posted on 7/14/19 at 8:03 pm to The Egg
I was just reading a thread on Talk Tennis by some guy who is super depressed and doesn't want to watch tennis again. My favorite response:
quote:
You can rewrite the wrongs and make them right by playing topspin 4 and making the results go your way if that helps
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