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re: Who is the worst MNC team and Heisman winner in the last 10 years
Posted on 10/14/13 at 11:10 am to RollTide1987
Posted on 10/14/13 at 11:10 am to RollTide1987
quote:
Worst team, dude. Without Cam Newton that's an 8-4 team. 2007 LSU, despite two losses, were a more complete team than 2010 Auburn IMO.
Great logic. Except for the small fact that Cam Newton was indeed on the team.
2
Posted on 10/14/13 at 11:15 am to Funky Tide 8
quote:
Funky Tide 8
That's actually a compliment coming from you.
If you agreed with my opinions, I'd be worried about my take.
Posted on 10/14/13 at 11:18 am to Zamoro10
This is actually a surprisingly easy question to answer
LSU 07 and Ingram are both pretty obvious choices
LSU 07 and Ingram are both pretty obvious choices
Posted on 10/14/13 at 11:24 am to RandySavage
quote:
Great logic. Except for the small fact that Cam Newton was indeed on the team.
The title of this thread is "Who is the worst MNC team and Heisman winner in the last 10 years". Obviously every single MNC team from the last 10 years is a good team. Otherwise they wouldn't have won the national championship. In order to figure out which is worst, you have to isolate the player that made the most impact, hypothetically remove him from the equation, and see how the teams would fair without him there. Take 2009 Alabama for example. If you remove Mark Ingram from the equation, Alabama is probably a 13-1 or 12-2 team without him. We probably don't beat Texas without him and we may not have beaten Virginia Tech without him either. Even without him, however, Alabama is probably still a national championship contender. After all, there were 5 additional AP All-Americans on that roster.
So engage in my hypothetical. If you remove Cam Newton from that equation can you honestly say with a straight face that Auburn is still a national championship contender? That's how you determine which team was the weakest to win a MNC. You have to deal in hypotheticals and look at how that team might have been without its best player. That's how I do it anyway. My system may not be perfect but when you're looking for the weakest team that usually means least complete team.
Posted on 10/14/13 at 11:26 am to RandySavage
TEXAS TECH @Columbus, OH WON 45-21
KENT STATE WON 51-17
WASHINGTON STATE WON 25-7
at Cincinnati WON 23-19
INDIANA WON 45-17
at Northwestern WON 27-16
SAN JOSE STATE (HC) WON 50-7
at Wisconsin WON 19-14
PENN STATE WON 13-7
MINNESOTA WON 34-3
at Purdue WON 10-6
at Illinois WON 23-16 (OT)
MICHIGAN WON 14-9
MIAMI WON 31-24 (2OT)
Ohio State held Miami 2002 to a season low point total. 26-3 victory of Tenn was next lowest. Miami needed a field goal as time expired to get 17 against OSU in regulation. Ohio State dismantled Texas Tech and a Rose Bowl-bound Washington State team and beat several ranked B10 teams. Had the 2cd ranking scoring defense, 3rd ranked rush defense and allowed only 5 second-half points per game. OSU Miami had most NFL players in one game (dunno if LSU-BAMA 2011 surpassed), with Ohio State having more of those players than Miami.
2006 Ohio State got weaker on defense throughout the year. Defense had lost a bunch of starters to the draft, and was very young, especially in the secondary, hurt by losing Whitner and Youboty) to the NFL as juniors when they'd been expected back. Lucky to catch McCoy as a freshman and beat up the defending national champs in Austin, holding them to a season low in points. Offense made up for some of those defensive problems.
After Troy won the Heisman the wheels fell off. Throughout the Tressel era, there was ONE game where locker room drama (minutes before kick off) and other off-field stuff caused the team to self-destruct. This was that game. It's pretty well known in OSU inner circles. Ginn injury didn't help things at all.
2006 OSU's national title game performance was definitely an aberration. The blow-out at USC and the loss to LSU were evidence of weak teams and bad game plans. 2007 OSU had no business in the title game and coasted through a weak schedule. That squad was definitely in the bottom 50% of Tressel's teams.
KENT STATE WON 51-17
WASHINGTON STATE WON 25-7
at Cincinnati WON 23-19
INDIANA WON 45-17
at Northwestern WON 27-16
SAN JOSE STATE (HC) WON 50-7
at Wisconsin WON 19-14
PENN STATE WON 13-7
MINNESOTA WON 34-3
at Purdue WON 10-6
at Illinois WON 23-16 (OT)
MICHIGAN WON 14-9
MIAMI WON 31-24 (2OT)
Ohio State held Miami 2002 to a season low point total. 26-3 victory of Tenn was next lowest. Miami needed a field goal as time expired to get 17 against OSU in regulation. Ohio State dismantled Texas Tech and a Rose Bowl-bound Washington State team and beat several ranked B10 teams. Had the 2cd ranking scoring defense, 3rd ranked rush defense and allowed only 5 second-half points per game. OSU Miami had most NFL players in one game (dunno if LSU-BAMA 2011 surpassed), with Ohio State having more of those players than Miami.
2006 Ohio State got weaker on defense throughout the year. Defense had lost a bunch of starters to the draft, and was very young, especially in the secondary, hurt by losing Whitner and Youboty) to the NFL as juniors when they'd been expected back. Lucky to catch McCoy as a freshman and beat up the defending national champs in Austin, holding them to a season low in points. Offense made up for some of those defensive problems.
After Troy won the Heisman the wheels fell off. Throughout the Tressel era, there was ONE game where locker room drama (minutes before kick off) and other off-field stuff caused the team to self-destruct. This was that game. It's pretty well known in OSU inner circles. Ginn injury didn't help things at all.
2006 OSU's national title game performance was definitely an aberration. The blow-out at USC and the loss to LSU were evidence of weak teams and bad game plans. 2007 OSU had no business in the title game and coasted through a weak schedule. That squad was definitely in the bottom 50% of Tressel's teams.
This post was edited on 10/14/13 at 11:37 am
Posted on 10/14/13 at 11:31 am to RollTide1987
quote:
In order to figure out which is worst, you have to isolate the player that made the most impact, hypothetically remove him from the equation
Why in the world do you have to do that?
quote:
If you remove Cam Newton from that equation can you honestly say with a straight face that Auburn is still a national championship contender?
No but he was on the team so that's totally irrelevant. The question isn't which is the least deep MNC team. It's the worst MNC team.
Pretty obvious the team that lost to two 4-5 loss teams and had several other close calls against mediocre teams is the worst.
Posted on 10/14/13 at 11:35 am to 3nOut
Mark Ingram
2012 Alabama
2012 Alabama
Posted on 10/14/13 at 11:38 am to RandySavage
ill go with jason white and 2002 buckeyes
Posted on 10/14/13 at 11:38 am to lsucoonass
Remind me what the Buckeyes did that year?
Posted on 10/14/13 at 11:49 am to Zamoro10
quote:
No great super teams after 2006.
2008 Florida was undoubtedly a great super team. Check out their average margin of victory and all the future NFL talent on their roster. Oklahoma and USC also had exceptional teams that year. Also, 2011 Alabama was historically dominant and 2011 LSU had one of the most impressive resumes in the history of college football. Now I do agree that college football has been down since 2006 but it's ludicrous to say that there haven't been any great teams since 2005 Texas/USC.
Posted on 10/14/13 at 12:04 pm to todospm
quote:
Ohio State dismantled Texas Tech and a Rose Bowl-bound Washington State team and beat several ranked B10 teams
But look at all those close calls on that schedule. Not close to being as as good as LSU 2007.
Posted on 10/14/13 at 1:17 pm to Bench McElroy
quote:
2008 Florida was undoubtedly a great super team
But losing to Ole Miss voids any chance you had at being remembered as truly great. Also, why is 2006 the cutoff like there was some great team that year?
Posted on 10/14/13 at 1:32 pm to dukke v
quote:
Not close to being as as good as LSU 2007
what? LSU lost 2 games, OSU lost 0. Posted on 10/14/13 at 1:34 pm to dukke v
quote:
But look at all those close calls on that schedule. Not close to being as as good as LSU 2007.
2007 LSU had several close calls AND lost 2 games... to average teams. GTFO with 2007 LSU.
Posted on 10/14/13 at 1:46 pm to RandySavage
2007 LSU also played a tougher schedule than most every other team on this list.
The fixation with undefeated seasons in college football is silly. Not all schedules are equal.
The fixation with undefeated seasons in college football is silly. Not all schedules are equal.
Posted on 10/14/13 at 2:01 pm to wadewilson
quote:
The fixation with undefeated seasons in college football is silly. Not all schedules are equal.
While I agree with this sentiment.
2007 LSU didn't lose two games to Georgia or UT or Auburn.
They lost two games to:
(3-5) Kentucky in the SEC
(4-4) Arkansas in the SEC
Sometimes a team drops 1 game to a mediocre opponent. Not two. That's more than just having an off day.
This post was edited on 10/14/13 at 2:02 pm
Posted on 10/14/13 at 2:07 pm to Zamoro10
By no means am I saying that LSU team was better than the others on the list. They were talented, but the team had some holes in it.
I think 2004 USC and 2008 Florida were a cut above any of the other teams that have won national titles in the last 10 years. Yeah, Florida lost to Ole Miss, still doesn't change my opinion.
I think 2004 USC and 2008 Florida were a cut above any of the other teams that have won national titles in the last 10 years. Yeah, Florida lost to Ole Miss, still doesn't change my opinion.
Posted on 10/14/13 at 2:11 pm to wadewilson
ok, can we get rid of the 2002 OSU team as the worst in 10 years since it has been 11 years since that team?
Posted on 10/14/13 at 2:17 pm to wadewilson
2008 Florida lost one game to a mediocre opponent by 1 point. It happens. You get a pass.
Every championship team has a close game.
2001 Miami beat @ VaTech by 2 points.
2004 USC beat @ UCLA by 5 points.
The only knock is Florida did it at home and of course, didn't prevail.
Every championship team has a close game.
2001 Miami beat @ VaTech by 2 points.
2004 USC beat @ UCLA by 5 points.
The only knock is Florida did it at home and of course, didn't prevail.
Posted on 10/14/13 at 2:19 pm to Buckeye06
Bottom line, this is a discussion about who's the ugliest chick competing for the Miss Universe title.
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