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re: Top 10 NFL playoff QB's, the way we should look at it
Posted on 12/31/13 at 1:23 pm to TulaneTigerFan
Posted on 12/31/13 at 1:23 pm to TulaneTigerFan
quote:
The entire premise is ranking QBs by wins or losses with no consideration to actual performance. It's terrible
for once I actually agree with this guy
Posted on 12/31/13 at 2:10 pm to Master of Sinanju
quote:1. Tom Brady - 11 10 7 5 6 - 39
I think a Super Bowl win should be weighted a bit heavier. Two points instead of one maybe.
1. Joe Montana - 11 9 7 4 8 - 39
3. Terry Bradshaw - 9 8 6 4 8 - 35
4. John Elway - 10 8 6 5 4 - 33
5. Brett Favre - 12 9 5 2 2 - 30
6. Peyton Manning - 13 9 3 2 2 - 29
6. Roger Staubach - 7 7 7 4 4 - 29
8. Troy Aikman - 8 6 4 3 6 - 27
9. Jim Kelly - 8 7 5 4 0 - 24
10. Dan Marino - 10 8 3 1 0 - 22
The only affect it has is that it ties Montana with Brady at 1. If the Patriots win, all is back to normal.
This post was edited on 12/31/13 at 2:15 pm
Posted on 12/31/13 at 2:41 pm to ballscaster
It's all perception. Brady started 10-0 in the playoffs when he was not the focus of the team, so his legacy was cemented. He has since gone 7-7 after becoming the focus of the team, but his legacy was already cemented. Belichick has noticeably started to make Brady not the focus anymore the past couple of seasons, trading passing firepower for defense and running backs. He also understands that elite offensive line (which he always has) is more important than elite receivers.
Manning did not win a single playoff game his first 5 seasons in the league, even getting blown out 41-0 in 2002, thus cementing his legacy for all time. He is also a victim of a very high expectations due to his 4 MVP's and people like me talking him up as the GOAT constantly. He has had the lead in the fourth quarter in 11 consecutive playoffs games but lost most of them and gets the blame. He has had some sub-par games but has also had some of the best individual game performances in playoff history.
People are also very short-term minded. If he wins the super bowl this year, the perception will change, only to revert back to the old way if he goes one and done the following season.
One thing you can rely on is a playoff appearance. In 15 seasons he has made the playoffs 13 times under 4 different head coaches, including his last 11 seasons of playing. 13 playoffs is the record for an NFL QB. He has willed some average teams to the playoffs and lost to better competition, especially in his earlier years. His brother has a better playoff record at 8-4, but all 8 of those wins were from his two super bowl runs and he has missed the playoffs the last 2 seasons and 4 times overall. So 40% of the time, his team has not even made the playoffs. Peyton would have helped those subpar teams to the playoffs and lost the first game to better teams, yet Eli somehow looks better in that scenario for not even making the playoffs but preserving a better win-loss record in the playoffs.
Manning did not win a single playoff game his first 5 seasons in the league, even getting blown out 41-0 in 2002, thus cementing his legacy for all time. He is also a victim of a very high expectations due to his 4 MVP's and people like me talking him up as the GOAT constantly. He has had the lead in the fourth quarter in 11 consecutive playoffs games but lost most of them and gets the blame. He has had some sub-par games but has also had some of the best individual game performances in playoff history.
People are also very short-term minded. If he wins the super bowl this year, the perception will change, only to revert back to the old way if he goes one and done the following season.
One thing you can rely on is a playoff appearance. In 15 seasons he has made the playoffs 13 times under 4 different head coaches, including his last 11 seasons of playing. 13 playoffs is the record for an NFL QB. He has willed some average teams to the playoffs and lost to better competition, especially in his earlier years. His brother has a better playoff record at 8-4, but all 8 of those wins were from his two super bowl runs and he has missed the playoffs the last 2 seasons and 4 times overall. So 40% of the time, his team has not even made the playoffs. Peyton would have helped those subpar teams to the playoffs and lost the first game to better teams, yet Eli somehow looks better in that scenario for not even making the playoffs but preserving a better win-loss record in the playoffs.
Posted on 12/31/13 at 4:20 pm to CptRusty
quote:
The entire premise is ranking QBs by wins or losses with no consideration to actual performance. It's terrible
You would be better saying something like a QB rating of 70 to 80 is worth 1 point 81 to 90 worth 2 points and so on. Just because your defense ducks doesn't mean you didn't play great.
Posted on 12/31/13 at 4:38 pm to ballscaster
Not even you can believe this silliness
Posted on 1/2/14 at 10:46 am to ballscaster
quote:
Citing playoff record alone is to say that winning in the wild card round and losing in the divisional round is somehow better than getting a bye and losing in the divisional round, when in fact they are essentially exactly the same.
getting the bye and the divisional round home game means you were one of the two best in the conference that year, and you should be expected to win in that round. losing in that round as a 1 or 2 seed has made Romo who he is, made Matt Ryan who he is, and made Peyton who he was for years
playing in the wild card round is what you should discount... it might be the playoffs in name, but it's not truly the playoffs until the best teams play. Tebow won in the wildcard round and lost in the divisional. it's like the NCAA tournament First Four. it's not THE tournament and smart people know it. you're not picking those games on your pools, etc.
Posted on 1/2/14 at 12:30 pm to ballscaster
quote:
What I'm saying is that a playoff bye is essentially the exact same as a wild card round win, so I'm counting it as such for this post.
Lets all manipulate stats to make a new point...beating Iowa in the Outback Bowl only counts as half a win...so I'm counting it as such for this post.
Posted on 1/2/14 at 2:14 pm to slackster
quote:
QB A makes 10 playoffs as a wildcard, and wins the wildcard round every single time. He then proceeds to lose in the divisional round every single time. 10-10 record.
QB B makes 10 playoffs with a bye each time, but loses in the divisional round every single time. 0-10 playoff record.
How about QB A makes the playoffs all 10 years as the 6 seed and wins all 10 wildcard match ups. QB B makes the playoffs as the 1 seed all 10 years. All 10 years they meet in the divisional round and QB B wins every year but loses in the conference championship game every year. Both QB's have a 10-10 record in the playoffs.
Now who ya got?
Posted on 1/2/14 at 8:11 pm to ballscaster
I'm a little confused. Why not use their playoff passer rating instead?
Posted on 1/2/14 at 8:18 pm to maburu2
Here is what I found:
Rank Quarterback Rating
1 Bart Starr 104.8
2 Drew Brees 103.9
3 Aaron Rodgers 103.6
4 Kurt Warner 102.8
5 Joe Montana 95.6
6 Mark Sanchez 94.3
7 Ken Anderson 93.5
8 Joe Theismann 91.4
9 Eli Manning 89.3
10 Peyton Manning 88.4
11 Troy Aikman 88.3
12 Tom Brady 87.4
13 Brett Favre 86.3
14 Joe Flacco 86.2
15 Steve Young 85.8
16 Matt Ryan 85.2
17 Warren Moon 84.9
18 Rich Gannon 84.6
19 Matt Hasselbeck 84.4
20 Ken Stabler 84.2
21 Ben Roethlisberger 83.7
Rank Quarterback Rating
1 Bart Starr 104.8
2 Drew Brees 103.9
3 Aaron Rodgers 103.6
4 Kurt Warner 102.8
5 Joe Montana 95.6
6 Mark Sanchez 94.3
7 Ken Anderson 93.5
8 Joe Theismann 91.4
9 Eli Manning 89.3
10 Peyton Manning 88.4
11 Troy Aikman 88.3
12 Tom Brady 87.4
13 Brett Favre 86.3
14 Joe Flacco 86.2
15 Steve Young 85.8
16 Matt Ryan 85.2
17 Warren Moon 84.9
18 Rich Gannon 84.6
19 Matt Hasselbeck 84.4
20 Ken Stabler 84.2
21 Ben Roethlisberger 83.7
Posted on 1/2/14 at 8:35 pm to ballscaster
quote:
This also helps quarterbacks from a generation ago who only played in eras of one or no wild card rounds, meaning fewer mathematical possibilities for postseason games played. This puts Bradshaw ahead of Favre and Staubach ahead of Kelly&Aikman, for example.
Well then where is Bart Starr? 5 championships in 7 years ought to be 25 pts.
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