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re: The Last Dance Episode 7 and 8 8PM Central
Posted on 5/10/20 at 11:20 pm to Choupique19
Posted on 5/10/20 at 11:20 pm to Choupique19
quote:
Yes, and there was a huge fracture in the team over it. They lost that series (which was likely going to happen anyway), but fell off greatly the next season until Jordan came back for the last 20% of the year.
Horace Grant leaving is more of a reason for that. He was a top 25 NBA player at that time.
0
Posted on 5/10/20 at 11:21 pm to Broski
quote:
It's two different games being played. Some of those games form this doc have been like 78-74, and it's not as simple as there being more talent in the 2010's than the 90's.
People on both sides of this debate are being intellectually dishonest with themselves when they try and make a head-to-head point to bolster their argument.
Couldn't have said it better. That and just the change of the game over the years between the rules and the overall style of play. People can't just live with X is the best player/team then and Y is the best player/team today
Posted on 5/10/20 at 11:23 pm to Broski
quote:
Sure, because no team in the 90's was averaging more than 5 three point attempts per game, let alone a quarter like they are now. But no team was playing defense in the 2010's like they were playing in the 90's.
It's funny when you watch old highlights and people like Chuck Person and Dale Ellis are "sharpshooters" and they are averaging 3.5 attempted threes per game
Curry sometimes has that like three minutes into the gameThis post was edited on 5/10/20 at 11:24 pm
Posted on 5/10/20 at 11:23 pm to Broski
quote:this really isnt true
But no team was playing defense in the 2010's like they were playing in the 90's.
eta: if we are talking about effectiveness. but stylistically, yes. defense is decidedly different now in that regard
This post was edited on 5/10/20 at 11:25 pm
Posted on 5/10/20 at 11:24 pm to Broski
Head to head I agree it’s hard to compare due to the era differences. I don’t think it’s hard to see how insanely stacked that Warriors team was though and why many experts consider them the best team of all time. They were a 73-9 team that added Durant (an MVP, multiple 1st team all nba, and a scoring champ) to the team and the only “big” pieces they lost were Harrison Barnes (glorified role player) and Andrew Bogut (was on the downside of his career).
The Warriors lost 1 games in the 16-17 playoffs, and it came after winning 15 straight where the Cavs just got insanely hot from 3.
The Warriors lost 1 games in the 16-17 playoffs, and it came after winning 15 straight where the Cavs just got insanely hot from 3.
Posted on 5/10/20 at 11:24 pm to WestCoastAg
Guess he never watched the Pistons take out your Lakers...sorry bud
edit: That was 2004 I know but still
edit: That was 2004 I know but still
This post was edited on 5/10/20 at 11:26 pm
Posted on 5/10/20 at 11:25 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
this really isnt true
Again, I'm not saying that as a talent thing.
The rules and style of play in the 90's allowed for much tougher defenses than is allowed today.
That's not even debatable.
Posted on 5/10/20 at 11:25 pm to theducks
I miss the sonics. They had some great battles with the Lakers in the 90s. Bring them back!
Posted on 5/10/20 at 11:26 pm to Broski
quote:
The rules and style of play in the 90's allowed for much tougher defenses than is allowed today.
There was literally an illegal defense rule in the 90s
Posted on 5/10/20 at 11:27 pm to theducks
quote:
The Warriors lost 1 games in the 16-17 playoffs, and it came after winning 15 straight where the Cavs just got insanely hot from 3.
I would argue that the 2000-01 Lakers would bitch slap either team because nobody is slowing down Shaq and Kobe is beginning the peak of his powers.
Posted on 5/10/20 at 11:28 pm to theducks
quote:
There was literally an illegal defense rule in the 90s
And there is one still now, but there is also a hand-check rule that didn't exist then, also fouls weren't called as strictly as they are now.
Posted on 5/10/20 at 11:28 pm to Broski
quote:this just isnt true. there is no virtual difference on a per possesion basis between defenses in the 90s as opposed to the 2010s
for much tougher defenses than is allowed today.
Posted on 5/10/20 at 11:28 pm to RLDSC FAN
It’s still a crime that Seattle doesn’t have a nba team.
Posted on 5/10/20 at 11:30 pm to theducks
quote:
There was literally an illegal defense rule in the 90s
Which basically just meant no zone defense. You could still double team, although it was more difficult, but you could still hand-check so that helped mitigate it
This post was edited on 5/10/20 at 11:36 pm
Posted on 5/10/20 at 11:31 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
there is no virtual difference on a per possesion
Look up the average possessions per game for the league from now compared to then. The game is different on both sides of the ball.
Posted on 5/10/20 at 11:33 pm to Broski
which is why its good to compare how well they played on a per possession basis. yes, there are more three pointers shot now. so point totals tend to be higher. but on a per possession basis, there really was no true difference between the defenses of the 90s and those of the 2010s in terms of effectiveness
This post was edited on 5/10/20 at 11:34 pm
Posted on 5/10/20 at 11:35 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
which is why its good to compare how well they played on a per possession basis. yes, there are more three pointers shot now. so point totals tend to be higher. but on a per possession basis, there really was no true difference between the defenses of the 90s and those of the 2010s in terms of effectiveness
But you don't think that there being more possessions per game has anything to do with how defense (and offense) is now played?
C'mon dude, you're smarter than this.
Posted on 5/10/20 at 11:36 pm to Broski
quote:
And there is one still now
When did you see an illegal defense foul recently?
quote:
but there is also a hand-check rule that didn't exist then
This is blown so far out of proportion tbh. Guys today still get a little handsy on defense too. It’s not really enforced similar to moving screens. As long as it’s not egregious and in the refs face they typically let it slide.
quote:
also fouls weren't called as strictly as they are now.
The 97-98 season saw two more fouls per game than the 19-20 season despite having 10 less possession per 48 minutes.
Posted on 5/10/20 at 11:36 pm to Broski
it has absolutely changed how its played. has in no way changed its effectiveness
Posted on 5/10/20 at 11:38 pm to GeauxAggie972
quote:
Which basically just meant no zone defense. You could still double team, although it was more difficult, but you could still hand-check so that helped mitigate it
Players couldn’t hedge and if they left their guy defensively, they had to hard double. The game today is so much better defensively. The 3 ball has ruined the league’s perception defensively imo. All casual fans see nowadays is box scores.
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