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re: So are we likely to finally get a college football playoff with only conference winners?
Posted on 8/1/20 at 8:38 am to BamaDude06
Posted on 8/1/20 at 8:38 am to BamaDude06
quote:
The one positive to the way college football is structured is how important it makes games. Lose 2 games you are eliminated from the playoffs essentially (except for 2007, obviously). Do we want to see CFB get to where teams are throwing the last game of the season like NFL teams do if they have already clinched a spot in their conference championship game?
I want to see college football get to where the conference you play in and the bullshite "eye test" aren't factors in who makes the playoff. If you don't even make your conference championship game, you don't belong in the playoff--plain and simple.
I don't want garbage 7-5 teams in either, but if they earn it by winning the conference, so be it. That's how every other level of football--and every other sport for that matter--works, but yet it's not good enough for the FBS?
You want 11-1 Alabama in the playoff without even winning the West? Fine; expand the playoff to include all conference champions and at-large teams, and then Bama can be in as an at-large. But if Wisconsin goes 7-5 and wins the Big 10, Wisconsin did what they were supposed to do--they won their conference. Seed the teams how you want, but the conference Champs should be in. Otherwise, conferences mean nothing.
1
Posted on 8/1/20 at 9:04 am to LSU6262
Nah, if a team like Bama doesn't win the SEC, they will likely get it. I highly doubt CFB would allow a playoff with no Tier 1 teams if only Tier 2 teams win the conferences.
CFB is never about what is fair. This will be a year to really put that in play.
CFB is never about what is fair. This will be a year to really put that in play.
Posted on 8/1/20 at 2:08 pm to Cowboyfan89
quote:
I don't want garbage 7-5 teams in either, but if they earn it by winning the conference, so be it. That's how every other level of football--and every other sport for that matter--works, but yet it's not good enough for the FBS?
As I said that 7-5 team was only in their conference title game because Ohio State AND Penn State were both on postseason bans. You know what doesn't happen in most sports leagues? Post season bans. That's the danger you run into if you both keep conference championship games and you allow automatic bids.
Since 2000 the following teams of won championships without winning their division
MLB: 2019 Nationals, 2014 Giants, 2011 Cardinals, 2004 Red Sox, 2003 Marlins, and the 2002 Angels
NFL: 2010 Packers, 2007 Giants, and the 2005 Steelers
NBA: 2011 Mavericks, 2007 Spurs, 2004 Pistons, and the 2002 Lakers
NHL: 2019 Blues, 2017 Penguins, 2016 Penguins, 2015 Blackhawks, 2014 Kings, 2012 Kings, 2009 Penguins, and the 2000 Devils
Yes those teams are "conference champions", but that's because those championships are decided IN the playoffs, not before. The size of college athletics does not allow that. Conference title games are not a great way to decide a champion outside of the Big 12 since all of their teams play each other. The old Big 12 is a great example. In 2008 Oklahoma, Texas, and Texas Tech all went 11-1 (7-1), yet Oklahoma played 9-3 (5-3) Missouri in the title game because of the way divisions are structured. Teams should not be punished for playing in stronger divisions and teams rewarded for playing in weaker divisions.
Hell look at the NCAA Tournament. How many teams win that that don't win their conference? 2019 Virginia lost in the ACC semifinals. So did 2017 UNC.
You bring up other levels of NCAA football. You know what those levels don't have? Conference Championship games. Their auto bid goes to the team with the best record and then there are at large selections. Current in the FCS there are 10 auto bids and 14 at large selections.
If you want all conference champions in cool, but there has to be at large spots too. I know a lot of people want to go to like a 16 team playoff. I'm cool with that, but you have to get rid of conference title games and/or trim the regular season. College kids should not be playing 16-17 games. I remember years ago (Like 2005 or so) a reporter asked an Alabama player about that. His response was something like "16 games is a full time job, that's what the NFL is for, not college."
quote:
Otherwise, conferences mean nothing.
I mean they really don't. Notre Dame has both played the the BCSNCG and made a playoff without being in one. Conferences are really just used for organization and contract negotiations. It's much easier for NBC, CBS, ESPN, etc. to negotiate with 10 conferences + ND, BYU, and a couple of other small independents and to have to negotiate with 130 individual schools.
Posted on 8/1/20 at 2:11 pm to BamaDude06
I do always love how everyone tries to make non winning a division/conference an Alabama thing. Alabama was not the first team to make the BCSCG without winning their division. Alabama was not the first team to make the CFP without winning their division. That was Nebraska and Ohio State respectively, and both were blown out. Alabama was just the first to actually win. 
Posted on 8/1/20 at 2:20 pm to GoldenGuy
quote:
Haven't all but like 1 or 2 of the 6 CFB Playoffs been all conference winners so far
Notre Dame and Bama
2016 Ohio State, in the worst committee decision of all time
Posted on 8/1/20 at 2:29 pm to VADawg
quote:
2016 Ohio State, in the worst committee decision of all time
Yep. OSU probably should have won the game vs Penn State, but that OSU team regressed after the Penn State loss and Penn State got better each week. Penn State should have been the first 2 loss team in.
Posted on 8/1/20 at 2:32 pm to BamaDude06
quote:
Yes those teams are "conference champions", but that's because those championships are decided IN the playoffs, not before. The size of college athletics does not allow that. Conference title games are not a great way to decide a champion outside of the Big 12 since all of their teams play each other.
This is a poor example considering everyone within a conference in the NFL doesn't play each other either. Who's to say the 48ers win the NFC if they have to play everyone? The conferences are basically the equivalent of NFL divisions. You win your division, you get in. Each league gets wildcards, which would basically be the at-large bids in the FBS.
quote:
His response was something like "16 games is a full time job, that's what the NFL is for, not college."
Another bad argument. Every year, there are multiple teams that play 15 to 16 games at the FBS and FCS level. Hell, some of the teams that make the state championship game in Louisiana high school football play 15 or 16 games. Should every team be playing that many games? No, but year in and year out, a handful of teams play that many games. Sure, get rid of the conference championship games and go to a full playoff just like the FCS. That would be awesome.
But it will never happen at the FBS level because of all of the money involved in bowl games and conference championship games. Dr. Pepper isn't going to sponsor a 2nd round playoff game in Norman like they do the conference championship games. And conferences won't want to give that money up.
ETA: As far as the Bama example, that's just an easy one to go to. I'm fully aware of Nebraska and Ohio State having also made the National Championship without winning their conference.
This post was edited on 8/1/20 at 3:28 pm
Posted on 8/1/20 at 3:28 pm to LSU6262
Like last year?
Posted on 8/1/20 at 7:43 pm to LSU6262
Well you said only conference winners not ALL conference winners. Not my fault you didn’t state your thread clearly
Posted on 8/1/20 at 8:40 pm to BamaDude06
quote:
If they had beaten Oregon they would of had zero business being in a playoff.
quote:
Since 2000 the following teams of won championships without winning their division
That’s twice. In less than 2 pages. Once, no big deal, you made a typo. Twice, you’re a goddamn redneck sister-fricking, Bear sucking Bama retard who typed a whole lot of words to try to justify your 2 illegitimate championships.
Posted on 8/1/20 at 8:50 pm to Hot Carl
If a typo is your only comeback that means you know I'm right.
I watched them both happen. I've seen the trophies. Seems pretty legitimate.
quote:
2 illegitimate championships.
I watched them both happen. I've seen the trophies. Seems pretty legitimate.
Posted on 8/1/20 at 9:10 pm to BamaDude06
quote:
Seems pretty legitimate.
I mean they won them, sure. The "illegitimate" argument is pretty weak, but the point is valid. If you can't even win your own division, you shouldn't be in a playoff or National Championship game. And if people want to make the argument that teams shouldn't be punished for playing in a tough division, fine, whatever. Go find a new division.
I've always found it ironic when the argument is made about the FBS having a regular season that matters; yet, teams like Ohio State and Alabama can lose and still make the playoffs. Nebraska loses the Big 12 title game and still gets to play Miami. That's a flawed system in my opinion, and negates the argument. You can't say the regular season matters if a team can lose a game, not even win their conference (or even the division), and then have them in the playoff over teams that did. The conference title basically means nothing at that point.
Posted on 8/1/20 at 9:17 pm to Cowboyfan89
quote:
I've always found it ironic when the argument is made about the FBS having a regular season that matters; yet, teams like Ohio State and Alabama can lose and still make the playoffs. Nebraska loses the Big 12 title game and still gets to play Miami. That's a flawed system in my opinion, and negates the argument. You can't say the regular season matters if a team can lose a game, not even win their conference (or even the division), and then have them in the playoff over teams that did. The conference title basically means nothing at that point.
Nebraska didn't play in their title game that year. They got blown out by Colorado, who won the division. Oklahoma did lose (another blowout) in the Big 12 title game in 2003 and then lost to LSU.
Conference Championship games exist for only one reason: money. They were not created for any other reason. The NCAA never imagined that FBS conferences would use that rule when they put it in the rule book. The SEC made a ton of money off of it and the other conferences followed. The Big 12 only added their game back so their teams could have that possible extra data point for the committee.
Posted on 8/1/20 at 11:15 pm to BamaDude06
quote:
Nebraska didn't play in their title game that year. They got blown out by Colorado, who won the division. Oklahoma did lose (another blowout) in the Big 12 title game in 2003 and then lost to LSU.
That's right. I started watching college football in 2001, so Nebraska has been a member of the Big Ten almost as long as they were in the Big 12 in terms of my "college football lifetime". So I sometimes forget what the old Big 12 divisions looked like...lol! I remembered the asskicking Colorado gave them, but forgot that it was during the regular season.
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