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Message
re: Prime Bird better than prime Magic
Posted on 2/22/22 at 8:30 pm to T
Posted on 2/22/22 at 8:30 pm to T
quote:
McHale: 3rd overall in 1980
Didn't really come into his own until the 1984 season (barely played at all in the 81 Finals), also Red would've drafted Ralph Sampson no. 1 overall that year if Sampson didn't decide to return to school
quote:
Parish: 8th overall in 1976
Was an absolute bust his first 4 seasons in the NBA
I'll give you this: the Boston Celtics from 1979-85 were loaded with depth and that's why they enjoyed the success they did. Post-1985, they were very top heavy and old with little depth as were the Lakers (why both lost to the Pistons as the 80s ended). Magic took 2-1 over Bird in the Finals matchups because Bird injured a finger on his shooting hand in a bar fight at Chelsea's during the 85 ECF and his 87 top-heavy squad wasn't the walking wounded like Bird's 87 Celtics squad was and Len Bias died of coke the previous summer.
Bird's first title team, he won with
Archibald: not at his peak like the early 70s but still all-star worthy
Parish: emerging but not peak
Chris Ford: run of the mill shooting guard
Cedric "Cornbread" Maxwell: not a single all-star or all-pro in 11 NBA seasons
Without Bird, that supporting cast does not win the 81 trophy or 62 games or attain the 1 East seed, etc let's face it
0
Posted on 2/22/22 at 8:30 pm to Maximus
quote:
Dude cried with his hands in the air all game, every game
What?
Posted on 2/22/22 at 8:43 pm to GREENHEAD22
Posted on 2/22/22 at 8:52 pm to GREENHEAD22
I agree that Bird in his prime was a better NBA player. If I was building a team to win over the course of a season or a single game in the 80s 90s or today, I would take Bird over Magic. That is no slight to Magic, but the number of players I would take over Bird is very short, Jordan and probably Kareem.
I think the logic in the OP is dumb. I think a lot of folks remember bad back Larry laying on the floor during timeouts. We never saw old broken-down Magic because he was forced into early retirement. So I think a lot of folks compare Prime Magic to Old Larry which is not a fair comparison.
I think the logic in the OP is dumb. I think a lot of folks remember bad back Larry laying on the floor during timeouts. We never saw old broken-down Magic because he was forced into early retirement. So I think a lot of folks compare Prime Magic to Old Larry which is not a fair comparison.
Posted on 2/22/22 at 8:54 pm to GREENHEAD22
Yes. Bird prime was better. And this is coming from a fan of Magic.
80 bird 4th in mvp (1st ROY) magic no votes (distant 2nd ROY)
81 bird 2nd in mvp magic 11th in mvp (3rd on Lakers!)
82 bird 2nd in mvp magic 8th in mvp
83 bird 2nd in mvp magic 3rd in mvp
84 bird 1st in mvp magic 3rd in mvp
85 bird 1st in mvp magic 2nd in mvp
86 bird 1st in mvp magic 3rd in mvp
87 bird 3rd (magic, jordan) magic 1st in mvp
88 bird 2nd in mvp magic 3rd in mvp
(so if we stop here- for the first 9 seasons for both players
Magic was considered the better player in 1 out of 9 seasons)
89 bird no votes magic 1st in mvp
90 bird 10th in mvp magic 1st in mvp
91 bird 10th in mvp magic 2nd in mvp
(Overall for 12 seasons Bird has 8 better and Magic 4 better)
But it is splitting hairs-
Magic 9 seasons straight in top 3 MVP + 5 titles
Bird 9 seasons straight in top 4 MVP + ROY + 3 titles
I give prime Bird a slight edge.
Magic's prime came a couple seasons after Bird's. And overall a better career. Magic's 1980 title playing center = Bird winning ROY. Magic's Lakers won the head to head champ series with Boston 2-1. Magic had 2 more championships overall.
80 bird 4th in mvp (1st ROY) magic no votes (distant 2nd ROY)
81 bird 2nd in mvp magic 11th in mvp (3rd on Lakers!)
82 bird 2nd in mvp magic 8th in mvp
83 bird 2nd in mvp magic 3rd in mvp
84 bird 1st in mvp magic 3rd in mvp
85 bird 1st in mvp magic 2nd in mvp
86 bird 1st in mvp magic 3rd in mvp
87 bird 3rd (magic, jordan) magic 1st in mvp
88 bird 2nd in mvp magic 3rd in mvp
(so if we stop here- for the first 9 seasons for both players
Magic was considered the better player in 1 out of 9 seasons)
89 bird no votes magic 1st in mvp
90 bird 10th in mvp magic 1st in mvp
91 bird 10th in mvp magic 2nd in mvp
(Overall for 12 seasons Bird has 8 better and Magic 4 better)
But it is splitting hairs-
Magic 9 seasons straight in top 3 MVP + 5 titles
Bird 9 seasons straight in top 4 MVP + ROY + 3 titles
I give prime Bird a slight edge.
Magic's prime came a couple seasons after Bird's. And overall a better career. Magic's 1980 title playing center = Bird winning ROY. Magic's Lakers won the head to head champ series with Boston 2-1. Magic had 2 more championships overall.
This post was edited on 2/22/22 at 11:45 pm
Posted on 2/22/22 at 9:04 pm to ThePTExperience1969
quote:Timmy was a beast. Moses or Karl?
I'd probably put LeBron at 3 behind Duncan. Duncan's a CRIMINALLY underrated GOAT candidate because he was very soft-spoken and wasn't demonstrative.
Also, I'd put Hakeem and Malone in top 10, those players were legendary but underrated on this list, particularly Malone.
This post was edited on 2/22/22 at 9:05 pm
Posted on 2/22/22 at 9:26 pm to grizzlylongcut
quote:You might gain just a smidge of credibility on these boards if you could cut it back to insulting one poster at a time. You're overdoing it.
Larry Bird is easily the best player of the 80s. Anybody that says otherwise is a fool.
What a pussy.
This post was edited on 2/22/22 at 9:28 pm
Posted on 2/22/22 at 10:18 pm to GREENHEAD22
quote:
magic gets that black aids love but he behind Bird.
So your premise for Larry being better than Magic is based on skin color, interesting.
In any case, Bird definitely has a case for being better than Magic. But you couldn't go wrong with either guy leading your team.
Posted on 2/22/22 at 10:32 pm to T
quote:
I like Bird, but he played with some all time greats too. And….
When Bird won rookie of the year in a landside over Magic (60 votes to 3)...the Celtics improved from 29-53 the previous year, to 61-21, at the time the best NBA single season turnaround ever, and would cruise to the Eastern Conference Finals...
The only player the Celtics added to that 29-53 starting lineup was Bird.
Bird inherited Tiny Archibald, M.L. Carr, Don Chaney and Dave Cowens as his starting lineup. Not exactly Murderers Row.
Posted on 2/22/22 at 10:36 pm to QJenk
quote:The thing that separated Bird from everyone else, was the psychological game he played, inside the game. He had the BB IQ, skills, but mind fricking people put him over the top.
But you couldn't go wrong with either guy leading your team.
Speaking of skills, he once played almost an entire game, shooting with his left hand. Just for shite's and giggles.
Posted on 2/22/22 at 11:54 pm to QJenk
quote:
quote:
magic gets that black aids love but he behind Bird.
quote:So you're interpreting the poster's statement "magic gets that black aids love" as racist meaning: Magic wasn't as good a player as Bird because Magic is Black.
So your premise for Larry being better than Magic is based on skin color, interesting.
You're saying the sympathy Johnson gets from - presumably - Black and White people because of his AIDS situation somehow has racial overtones that mean Magic - because of his skin color - wasn't as good a player as Bird.
So, somehow, sympathy for Magic's situation with AIDS equates to racism towards Magic by those sympathizers?
Dumbass, your statement poking at the poster is so deeply racist I can't believe I read it! You're trying to imply racism by showing your own fricking bias!
And I'll bet you don't even get it! shite, I hope you're not from Louisiana.
Gawddahm, what a dope.
This post was edited on 2/23/22 at 12:03 am
Posted on 2/23/22 at 12:23 am to ecb
quote:Bird never had to play Bird.
Bird does not agree with you.
Posted on 2/23/22 at 1:24 am to GREENHEAD22
What people were saying about Bird during his prime:
"There has never been a basketball player quite like the Celtics' Larry Joe Bird, in whom talent and tenacity rage a daily wire-to-wire battle for supremacy. Owing to the extraordinary importance of the giant pivotman in the game, it is probably impossible to declare that, in his seventh season, the 6'9", 220-pound Bird, a forward, is greater than Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain or Kareem Abdul-Jabbar—that is, the greatest player of all time. Or maybe it isn't."
Jerry West on Bird: "He is as nearly perfect as you can get in almost every phase of basketball."
"There has never been a basketball player quite like the Celtics' Larry Joe Bird, in whom talent and tenacity rage a daily wire-to-wire battle for supremacy. Owing to the extraordinary importance of the giant pivotman in the game, it is probably impossible to declare that, in his seventh season, the 6'9", 220-pound Bird, a forward, is greater than Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain or Kareem Abdul-Jabbar—that is, the greatest player of all time. Or maybe it isn't."
Jerry West on Bird: "He is as nearly perfect as you can get in almost every phase of basketball."
Posted on 2/23/22 at 2:50 am to dukke v
quote:Best answer. Different skills, different positions.
Magic and bird both changed the nba forever when they came into the league.
If I want a shooting forward I want Bird. If I want a Point guard I want Magic. It’s hard to compare the two because of the type of effect they each had on the game.
Jordan was a 2 guard, played different spot too. We saw on the Dream Team what everyone at the time understood- those guys could all play on the same team, at the same time, and complement each other.
It's hard to say one is better than the other, because you can't just swap one for the other on a team and expect to have the same success.
Posted on 2/23/22 at 4:19 am to Damathe
Moses
Posted on 2/23/22 at 7:59 am to ThePTExperience1969
quote:Attaboy.
Moses
Posted on 2/23/22 at 8:03 am to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:
Larry Bird is criminally underrated even though he’s still considered top 10.
the 80's guys are all underrated for some reason...
NBA does their top 75, and they leave off Alex English...the leading scorer of the 80's. yet they have some bums like Kyrie
Posted on 2/23/22 at 8:24 am to GamecockUltimate
quote:
the 80's guys are all underrated for some reason...
NBA does their top 75, and they leave off Alex English...the leading scorer of the 80's. yet they have some bums like Kyrie
Anybody who watched the NBA during the 80's, knows the game has changed tremendously. It's a shell of it's former self with every game being played in "Flop City". The basketball of the Bird/Magic/Jordan era was much more physical. Shots are barely contested since Lebron came along. No way he'd have near as many points, if he played during that time.
Posted on 2/23/22 at 9:40 am to Damathe
quote:]
So you're interpreting the poster's statement "magic gets that black aids love" as racist meaning: Magic wasn't as good a player as Bird because Magic is Black.
You're saying the sympathy Johnson gets from - presumably - Black and White people because of his AIDS situation somehow has racial overtones that mean Magic - because of his skin color - wasn't as good a player as Bird.
So, somehow, sympathy for Magic's situation with AIDS equates to racism towards Magic by those sympathizers?
Dumbass, your statement poking at the poster is so deeply racist I can't believe I read it! You're trying to imply racism by showing your own fricking bias!
And I'll bet you don't even get it! shite, I hope you're not from Louisiana.
Dude, no. Just stop while you are ahead. The OP was the one who said Magic gets more love because he was black, and had AIDS. I don't think that was the case at all.
You can make legitimate arguments for either Magic or Bird being better, neither of which arguments has zero to do with skin color, or who they choose to have sex with.
Posted on 2/23/22 at 10:25 am to GREENHEAD22
"Bird Prime"? Hands down. (too bad his body got over-battered.)
He and Brady are alike in that they inspired teammates to be the best they could be (or better than they actually "are"). That's maximum "Leadership". Extremely rare.
That's no knock on Magic, (who was one of the greatest.)
McHale, Parrish and DJ were always excellent players. BUT not HoF players if not for Bird.
He and Brady are alike in that they inspired teammates to be the best they could be (or better than they actually "are"). That's maximum "Leadership". Extremely rare.
That's no knock on Magic, (who was one of the greatest.)
McHale, Parrish and DJ were always excellent players. BUT not HoF players if not for Bird.
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