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re: Pretty tough to argue against Manning being the GOAT at this point
Posted on 9/24/13 at 11:20 am to RollTide1987
Posted on 9/24/13 at 11:20 am to RollTide1987
quote:wut...quote:Meaningless stats as both QBs played on teams that consistently won 12+ games every season.
Since you seem to like factors that are totally out of their control (personnel), why don't you compare the defenses each of those guys played with the majority of their careers?
Post the stats, breh.
0
Posted on 9/24/13 at 11:20 am to benhamin5555
No one throws a more beautiful on time ball then Peyton Manning.
Posted on 9/24/13 at 11:26 am to alajones
Can none of you understand that all factors have to be taken into account? It doesn't have to be just stats or just playoff record/rings.
Peyton Manning is a great QB who has had a long ultra successful career that looks to have a few more good years left. His play has him deservedly in the discussion for the greatest quarterback of all time.
However, the fact is there is no excuse for Peyton Manning to have such a dismal post season record having played on several very talented teams throughout his career and losing multiple games in which his team was the favorite.
Due to that very simple fact there are other quarterbacks who pull slightly ahead of him in the race for the best QB of all time.
It's not like anybody is saying he sucks.
Peyton Manning is a great QB who has had a long ultra successful career that looks to have a few more good years left. His play has him deservedly in the discussion for the greatest quarterback of all time.
However, the fact is there is no excuse for Peyton Manning to have such a dismal post season record having played on several very talented teams throughout his career and losing multiple games in which his team was the favorite.
Due to that very simple fact there are other quarterbacks who pull slightly ahead of him in the race for the best QB of all time.
It's not like anybody is saying he sucks.
This post was edited on 9/24/13 at 11:27 am
Posted on 9/24/13 at 11:26 am to RollTide1987
So to you...it's relevant that Manning played with better skill players, but irrelevant that Brady had a better D? Is that accurate?
Posted on 9/24/13 at 11:30 am to craigbiggio
quote:
So to you...it's relevant that Manning played with better skill players, but irrelevant that Brady had a better D? Is that accurate?
Yeah...because it all evens out. The Patriots and the Colts were consistently the two best teams in the AFC throughout the last decade. The Colts had the better offense, while the Patriots had the better defense. Tom Brady didn't become an "elite" passer until 2007 or so.
The Colts had some very good teams that choked away in the playoffs.
This post was edited on 9/24/13 at 11:31 am
Posted on 9/24/13 at 11:35 am to RollTide1987
You keep saying "teams" so clearly you understand that wins are a team stat, not an individual one.
Thus, you are trolling.
Thus, you are trolling.
Posted on 9/24/13 at 11:40 am to theunknownknight
(no message)
Posted on 9/24/13 at 11:41 am to Sophandros
quote:
You keep saying "teams" so clearly you understand that wins are a team stat, not an individual one.
Wins are a team stat, yes, but does a quick screen behind the line to Wes Welker that goes 76 yards for a touchdown belong more to the QB or to the WR? Who cares? The WR and the QB both get credit for the yards and the touchdown.
Just like wins are generally shared between the team, the head coach, and the QB.
This post was edited on 9/24/13 at 11:43 am
Posted on 9/24/13 at 11:42 am to theunknownknight
quote:
Elway is overrated.
quote:
Marino Brees Young Brady Favre Moon Kelly Elway
I laugh at this.
Posted on 9/24/13 at 11:44 am to iDominate
quote:
No one throws a more beautiful on time ball then Peyton Manning.
Dave Krieg laughs at this.
Posted on 9/24/13 at 11:53 am to RollTide1987
quote:
Tom Brady didn't become an "elite" passer until 2007 or so.
And what have the Patriots won since then? Double standards son.
I don't fault Brady for the Patriots not winning once the team was built around he and the offense rather than the defense. But I do find it amusing that the Peyton detractors fault Peyton for not winning more consistently in the playoffs while Brady gets a pass due to the years where he was quite clearly carried by his defense. It's painfully stupid to look at just the win loss record without any context or stats
Posted on 9/24/13 at 11:55 am to theunknownknight
quote:
Elway is overrated
Posted on 9/24/13 at 12:01 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
The Colts had some very good teams that choked away in the playoffs.
So have the Pats...
Upset at home last year as second seed (probably should have lost the year before as well)
Upset at home as the #1 seed in 2010
Blown out at home in the WC round in 2009
2007 Super Bowl
Posted on 9/24/13 at 12:03 pm to TulaneTigerFan
quote:
And what have the Patriots won since then? Double standards son.
I have never once argued that Brady was better than Manning or vice versa. The only thing I have said here with any sort of definitiveness is that I believe Montana to be the greatest QB to ever play in the NFL. I did argue that Brady has seen greater success in the playoffs than Manning has. That's hard to argue with considering the amount of Super Bowl rings and playoff wins Brady can claim.
This post was edited on 9/24/13 at 12:04 pm
Posted on 9/24/13 at 12:05 pm to craigbiggio
quote:
So have the Pats...
And I grant you that. But Manning with the Colts choked away opportunities more frequently as their playoff records indicate.
Posted on 9/24/13 at 12:06 pm to RollTide1987
Oh, and let me be clear that I'm not arguing that Manning is the GOAT. I posted my reasons for why GOAT in football is elusive at best pages ago.
Rather, my argument is on against your narrative and your obsession with attributing team accomplishments to individuals.
Rather, my argument is on against your narrative and your obsession with attributing team accomplishments to individuals.
Posted on 9/24/13 at 12:08 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
But Manning with the Colts choked away opportunities more frequently as their playoff records indicate.
And this is what I'm talking about.
The facts simply don't match your narrative.
Posted on 9/24/13 at 12:19 pm to Sophandros
9-11 vs. 17-7. Yeah. Facts don't add up.
Posted on 9/24/13 at 12:22 pm to ragincajun03
quote:
You're right. I don't think he's in the discussion yet about best QB of all time, but a few more seasons of current Brees form, and another Super Bowl trip, he would certainly be in the discussion.
I'm not sure he can ever be in the discussion as the GOAT. He is certainly worthy of top 10 and possibly top 5, but he would have to win 2-3 super bowls while playing at his 2009 and 2011 level. Aaron Rodgers is already near equal to him despite being much younger.
That doesn't mean that his best can't be up there, but for a career GOAT I just can't see it.
Now he may be the best playoff QB of all-time. His average defense for his career ranks in the 20's. Mannings is 14th I believe and Brady is in the top 10. Brees has had to do more than the others throughout his career
This post was edited on 9/24/13 at 12:25 pm
Posted on 9/24/13 at 12:27 pm to RollTide1987
Manning isn't the reason they lost, and he performed better in the postseason than Brady has.
Again, facts don't match your narrative.
Hell, you admitted that Brady's defense and special teams carried him through most of his success...
Again, facts don't match your narrative.
Hell, you admitted that Brady's defense and special teams carried him through most of his success...
This post was edited on 9/24/13 at 12:29 pm
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