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re: PER and Kobe Bryant
Posted on 3/7/14 at 5:28 pm to jg8623
Posted on 3/7/14 at 5:28 pm to jg8623
quote:
What about the years without Shaq or Gasol?
Yea I know, bosh, wade, Allen
Every star has to have other players to win championships. You act as if it didn't matter who kobe was playing with because he made everyone better all the time.....except for the years without Shaq or Gasol
Did Kobe run to them to win? Nope. Why? Because his greatness wouldn't allow it. Sure he played with Shaq and Gasol, the difference is Kobe demanded excellence and to be the alpha. In doing so, Kobe was concerned with wins.
LeBrony is too concerned with win shares.
Difference? One's just a stat. The other matters to greatness. That's why Kobe >> LeBeta
This post was edited on 3/7/14 at 5:33 pm
3
Posted on 3/7/14 at 5:31 pm to jg8623
quote:
0 rings without Shaq or Gasol. Thoughts?
Kobe never ran and and yet still won...with virtually two different teams.
Lebron, not so much.
Oh and without Wade and Bosh and running from a challenge 0 rings. Thoughts?
This post was edited on 3/7/14 at 5:33 pm
Posted on 3/7/14 at 5:32 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
Did Kobe run to them to win? Nope. Why?
That was the whole point of my post. No, kobe didn't run to Shaq or Gasol and I respect him for sticking to his team. I've got tons or respect for kobe and his game and like his mentality over someone like LeBron
But, that doesn't make someone a better basketball player
LeBron James is a better overall player than kobe, and I'm not even a LeBron fan
Posted on 3/7/14 at 5:33 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
What's the ultimate end of all these numbers numbers numbers? Winning
Okay, in 11 seasons LeBron has 164.7 win share.
In Kobe's first 11 seasons, he has a 109.9 win shares.
In 11 seasons, LeBron is 2/4 in Finals
In 11 seasons, Kobe was 3/4 in Finals
Got LeBron beat there.
In LeBron's 4 seasons where he reached the finals, he accounted for more win shares than any of Kobe's 4 seasons with Shaq.
ETA: who was more integral to their team, LeBron or Kobe. easy answer, but you'll frick it up. it was LeBron.
This post was edited on 3/7/14 at 5:38 pm
Posted on 3/7/14 at 5:34 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
Sure he played with Shaq and Gasol, the difference is Kobe demanded excellence and to be the alpha.
that's why he took the beta roll for 3 of his 5 rings.
Posted on 3/7/14 at 5:34 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
Oh and without Wade and Bosh and running from a challenge 0 rings. Thoughts?
No shite,
I'm not a LeBron fanboy But not liking the way someone handled their career doesn't take away from his basketball ability
Posted on 3/7/14 at 5:35 pm to jg8623
quote:
That was the whole point of my post. No, kobe didn't run to Shaq or Gasol and I respect him for sticking to his team. I've got tons or respect for kobe and his game and like his mentality over someone like LeBron
But, that doesn't make someone a better basketball player
LeBron James is a better overall player than kobe, and I'm not even a LeBron fan
You determine better by useless "individual" numbers mostly misunderstood in the context of the entire teams performance.
Hint: I used quotes for a reason throughout this thread.
I determine greatness by overcoming odds, by actually winning without stacking the deck.
Posted on 3/7/14 at 5:36 pm to jg8623
quote:
But not liking the way someone handled their career doesn't take away from his basketball ability
It affects their greatness. Which has been my point since post #1 in this thread.
Posted on 3/7/14 at 5:37 pm to jg8623
quote:
I didn't like they way LeBron handled things by going to the heat, and I still pull against the heat, but I'm not a blind and biased jackass and am willing to admit that LeBron is the best player in the world and better than Kobe
Pretty much, I rooted for SA to win it all. LeBron got his ring, he isn't the clutch killer like MJ. Nor does he elevate his game like MJ does when it matters most.
Posted on 3/7/14 at 5:37 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
Did Kobe run to them to win? Nope. Why? Because he played in LA and knew they'd buy him a superstar.
FIFY.
Kobe never even got out of the first round without another star. LeBron not only got out, but made the Finals. Even the year after, he LeBron himself took the Celtics to 7. The same Celtics team who by the way gave the Lakers one of the biggest elimination game losses of all time in Finals history.
Posted on 3/7/14 at 5:40 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
You determine better by useless "individual" numbers mostly misunderstood in the context of the entire teams performance.
Please go back and find where I posted random stats about kobe or LeBron?
I think he's better because I've watched both of their careers
I love Kobe's mentality and wish more players were like that, but when talking about overall basketball ability I think LeBron James is better, that's all there is. And I'm a KD fan so I have no reason to be biased in my opinion
This post was edited on 3/7/14 at 5:43 pm
Posted on 3/7/14 at 5:41 pm to htran90
quote:
that's why he took the beta roll for 3 of his 5 rings
His beta role put up better stats in the playoffs through the true gauntlet of the Western Conference than Jordan's alpha role during rings 4-6.
If he's beta then, what was Jordan in 1998 for instance?
Shaq was Kobe's beta against the big hitters in the playoffs on those years. Kobe was the one who ripped the Spurs apart for instance.
Shaq beat up on terrible weaker Eastern teams. That's pretty beta in and of itself.
Kobe's "beta" >>>>> LeBrony's "alpha"
Posted on 3/7/14 at 5:43 pm to theducks
quote:
Kobe never even got out of the first round without another star. LeBron not only got out, but made the Finals. Even the year after, he LeBron himself took the Celtics to 7. The same Celtics team who by the way gave the Lakers one of the biggest elimination game losses of all time in Finals history.
We covered these myths already. Learn to read before posting. In short, you don't really know Lebron's teams or his opponents the way you THINK you do. Thanks.
Posted on 3/7/14 at 5:43 pm to htran90
quote:
who was more integral to their team, LeBron or Kobe. easy answer, but you'll frick it up. it was LeBron.
Guarantee you put Melo, or anyone else for that matter, on that Heat team they don't get to the finals.
Posted on 3/7/14 at 5:45 pm to theunknownknight
[
Jordan averaged 32 a game in the 98 playoffs
quote:
If he's beta then, what was Jordan in 1998 for instance?
Jordan averaged 32 a game in the 98 playoffs
Posted on 3/7/14 at 5:46 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
His beta role put up better stats in the playoffs through the true gauntlet of the Western Conference than Jordan's alpha role during rings 4-6.
Not true
Posted on 3/7/14 at 5:48 pm to theunknownknight
Lets forget the whole Refs rigging games in favor of Kobe in the playoffs in the early 2000s as well.
Posted on 3/7/14 at 5:48 pm to theunknownknight
Through the 1st 3 champonships: Kobe/Shaq
Kobe:
21.1ppg
4.5rpg
4.4apg
29.4ppg
7.3rpg
6.1apg
26.6ppg
5.8rpg
4.6apg
Shaq:
30.7ppg
15.4rpg
3.1apg
30.4ppg
15.4rpg
3.2apg
28.5ppg
12.6rpg
2.8apg
Result? Shaq is Finals MVP 3 times.
Lets compare the season they lost in the finals:
Kobe
20.9fga (41.3%)
24.5ppg
4.7rpg
5.5apg
Shaq
14.0fga (59.3%)
21.5ppg
13.2rpg
2.5apg
Kobe:
21.1ppg
4.5rpg
4.4apg
29.4ppg
7.3rpg
6.1apg
26.6ppg
5.8rpg
4.6apg
Shaq:
30.7ppg
15.4rpg
3.1apg
30.4ppg
15.4rpg
3.2apg
28.5ppg
12.6rpg
2.8apg
Result? Shaq is Finals MVP 3 times.
Lets compare the season they lost in the finals:
Kobe
20.9fga (41.3%)
24.5ppg
4.7rpg
5.5apg
Shaq
14.0fga (59.3%)
21.5ppg
13.2rpg
2.5apg
Posted on 3/7/14 at 5:51 pm to jg8623
Kobe first 3 rings: playoff average
21.1 ppg, 4.5 reb, 4.4 ast
29.4 ppg, 7.3 reb, 6.1 ast
26.6 ppg, 5.8 reb, 4.6 ast
Jordan rings 4 thru 6 playoff average:
30.7 ppg, 4.9 reb, 4.1 ast
31.1 ppg, 7.9 reb, 4.8 ast
32.4 ppg, 5.1 reb, 3.5 ast
21.1 ppg, 4.5 reb, 4.4 ast
29.4 ppg, 7.3 reb, 6.1 ast
26.6 ppg, 5.8 reb, 4.6 ast
Jordan rings 4 thru 6 playoff average:
30.7 ppg, 4.9 reb, 4.1 ast
31.1 ppg, 7.9 reb, 4.8 ast
32.4 ppg, 5.1 reb, 3.5 ast
Posted on 3/7/14 at 5:54 pm to jg8623
I'm gonna add to this tidbit,
Jordan's 4-6 he had higher fg% than Kobe did as well.
Jordan's 4-6 he had higher fg% than Kobe did as well.
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