re: MJ is the GOAT

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Think about what you just said. He'll be in the NBA finals 8 years in a row, but wouldn't sniff a win in the West playoffs? Got it. I guess his 3 championships were against other eastern opponents.

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I’m confused, in football Tom Brady is the GOAT because rings, yet LeBron is the GOAT because he’s made so many Finals and is sub .500 in Finals appearances?

Explain that logic.

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It's a lazy argument to say that Jordan > LeBron because 6-0 versus 3-5.

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Well then don’t do that shite with other team sports too.

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Where Kobe took those shots, how he took those shots and the threat he could make any shot from anywhere on the floor at anytime from any direction with either hand demanded defenses collapsed on him no matter where he shot creating great opportunities in the triangle. There's a reason other players consistently had CAREER years playing along side Kobe and why Kobe won so much. Despite the false claims, Kobe actually did elevate the play of those around him (assuming they weren't washed up or lazy prima donnas). Kobe's aggressive play actually helped the teams he was on - and the proof's in the pudding. He actually won consistently against REAL competition in the West. Kobe's 7 finals appearances from the West >>>> Lebron's from the Least.

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Notice how you ignore all of the facts and just start throwing stuff at the wall and hope it sticks. Kobe is a great player. He was the man in the 08 Gold Medal Game. He is a winner and I never once bought into the narrative that he didn't make his teammates better. He helped make prime Shaq who he was. He's a top 15 player in the history of the game. That's really damn good. It just so happens that MJ and LBJ are #1 and #2. Statistically Kobe does nothing better than MJ and only shoots FT's better than LBJ. Historically MJ and LBJ are 1 and 2 in PER. Kobe isn't in the top 20. Kobe's biggest strength was scoring but he doesn't average as much as MJ or LBJ in the regular season or playoffs.

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You won't find me ever saying Brady is the GOAT because of Super Bowl wins.

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I didn’t say you did, I was speaking in generalities.

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It's a stupid argument regardless of the sport.

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It is a horrible argument. You’re gonna judge an individual based on team accomplishments? That’s a real convincing argument.

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Yea in the bitch arse eastern conference. Dude wouldn’t sniff second round in the West.

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why do you think all of the other all stars want to be in the west?

Hint: Cuz LeBron is in the East.

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why do you think all of the other all stars want to be in the west?

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The all stars have been in the West since 1999. Did you just start watching the NBA?

The East has sucked for 20 years.

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Shaq didn’t win shite until Kobe - and that Orlando magic team was LOADED. Kobe’s points per shot are right up there with MJ and comparing the two just stats wise is dumb because they were asked to do different things throughout their careers. Kobe had to run the triangle and keep the offensive pressure on AND be the number 1 defender at the same time Jordan never had that responsibility. Pippen ran the offense and usually guarded the best player while Jordan could focus on letting the offense run TO him (let’s also not forget how much guards sucked offensively and defensively back in Jordan’s 1980’s heyday when almost everyone was shooting 50+ percent). Put 2005-2006 Kobe in the 1980’s. Game over.

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Are you actually reading my post? I never gave Shaq the credit for winning with the Lakers. I gave Kobe praise.

Please respond to the facts that KOBE does nothing better than MJ and only shoots FT's better than LBJ.

Also, lol at Kobe having to keep the offensive pressure but MJ not having too. MJ didn't have a 27 and 13 monster walking around in the paint for him.

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Also, lol at Kobe having to keep the offensive pressure but MJ not having too. MJ didn't have a 27 and 13 monster walking around in the paint for him.

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Exactly - and you think MJ’s ppg etc would have gone UP if he was just setting up the offense the first half of his career (while in his teens and early 20’s btw).

The offense was running through Shaq BY Kobe. Not the other way around. If anything SHAQ’S stats went up.

If the offense was run in the other direction (Shaq’s presence be design setting up Kobe to have the scoring and offense flow through Kobe, Kobe’s numbers would have been off the charts. Heck, BOTH Kobe and Shaq said as much in their last interviews together.

Kobe did plenty better than both MJ and Lebron. It’s easy to see when you actually pull up YouTube and WATCH all three play. Kobe had better footwork, three times the moves (he didn’t just mimic Jordan, he mimicked Hakeem, Magic, Dirk, Kareem etc) from all angles of the court with either hand.

Go watch the artistry of Kobe Bryant video and see what NBA players said directly about him. He demolished the entire 2008 Olympic team in a 1 on 1 tourney.

What you see as “inefficient” from Kobe’s numbers is really Kobe having no fear on where to score.

Players like MJ and Lebron have their shots and have offenses designed to get their shots. Kobe WAS the offense.

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Except for it never showed statistically even when Kobe didn't have Shaq. I'm done here. You ignore facts and let your bias cloud your opinion. It's a waste of time to continue this.

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Statistics are queers, the lazy, and snowflakes who can’t grasp the idea of context. Different systems, different responsibilities, different teammates, different positions result in different outcomes.

Go watch the man play like I said and compare to actual footage of the three. I know it takes a little more effort than just staring at a number but that’s where you find the truth.

Not trashing Kobe nor am I gonna argue false narratives about him, he’s a top 7 all-time player in my opinion and one of the 3-4 most talented athletes to ever play the sport just couldn’t hack it from the efficiency standpoint whereas MJ and LeBron did and that’s all there is to it. You could argue Kobe’s top 3 or 4 all-time, I wouldn’t necessarily agree with it but you could make a good argument for him in that regard.