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re: Matt Stafford Agrees to 5 year contract with Lions
Posted on 8/29/17 at 1:13 pm to shel311
Posted on 8/29/17 at 1:13 pm to shel311
quote:Most do, but he's not elite. He needs help.
Don't elite QBs usually overcome that and still have their offenses ranked in the top half of the league? Especially when we're talking about passing offenses.
0
Posted on 8/29/17 at 1:15 pm to shel311
quote:
I say the number he's at now is past that point.
The current market, cap climate, and basic contract structuring disagree with you.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 1:16 pm to shel311
quote:
Don't elite QBs usually overcome that and still have their offenses ranked in the top half of the league? Especially when we're talking about passing offenses.
He's supposed to overcome what's usually a bottom 5 rushing attack? Who else is asked to do that and does it?
Posted on 8/29/17 at 1:19 pm to gatorhata9
quote:No, none of that. The Detroit Lions decision makers disagree with me.
The current market, cap climate, and basic contract structuring disagree with you.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 1:22 pm to shel311
quote:The high majority of NFL teams disagree with you. The only one that comes to mind that does agree with you is the Redskins.
The Detroit Lions decision makers disagree with me.
NFL teams overpay for competent QBs. We ordinarily don't see them hit FA.
ETA: The Redskins are the only team that I can think of that's going to let a competent QB walk that doesn't already have someone ready to take his place (i.e., Alex Smith and Kaepernick).
This post was edited on 8/29/17 at 1:28 pm
Posted on 8/29/17 at 1:28 pm to shel311
quote:
where do you draw the line on how much guaranteed money you'd give this "average" player? Honest question, what's the number?
Well he's not "average". He's a very high producing Top 10 QB.
And the number is whatever the market dictates/what you think his value is. He got a high guaranteed number but they feel that's what he's worth. It's still within the relative market for QB's right now for percentage guaranteed at 44%.
You're getting bogged down in "I don't think he's worth that" because he doesn't fit what you think is "elite". He's a very productive quarterback who has the leverage to demand a lucrative contract. He's worth whatever the Lions are willing to pay him and his playoff record is in no way indicative of future success. Look at Matt Ryan. 90% of the Saints Board would dump him in a heartbeat, especially in his contract year. Look how that turned out. The guy who couldn't win in the playoffs was the NFL MVP and led his team to the Super Bowl.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 1:30 pm to shel311
quote:
No, none of that. The Detroit Lions decision makers disagree with me.
Care to provide actual data points that say those three things are in your favor for this particular argument? Or any data points in general that support your argument as a whole?
Posted on 8/29/17 at 1:30 pm to StrongBackWeakMind
quote:that does not make it the right decision
NFL teams overpay for competent QBs.
For every success, I can show you a failure....bears paying Cutler, dolphins paying tannehill, chargers resigning rivers, Dalton in CIN so far
Posted on 8/29/17 at 1:32 pm to Rouge
It's not guaranteed to lead to Super Bowl success, or even likely considering how difficult it is to make it to a Super Bowl, but it puts you in a better position than letting him walk and testing your luck in FA / in the draft.
They currently have a guy that's damn good. Right around top 10 in the NFL. You don't let those guys walk.
They currently have a guy that's damn good. Right around top 10 in the NFL. You don't let those guys walk.
This post was edited on 8/29/17 at 1:34 pm
Posted on 8/29/17 at 1:34 pm to StrongBackWeakMind
quote:And every last NFL team makes negative EV decisions on 4th down calls.
The high majority of NFL teams disagree with you. The only one that comes to mind that does agree with you is the Redskins.
NFL teams overpay for competent QBs. We ordinarily don't see them hit FA.
ETA: The Redskins are the only team that I can think of that's going to let a competent QB walk that doesn't already have someone ready to take his place (i.e., Alex Smith and Kaepernick).
Just because the high majority do it one way does not make them right.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 1:35 pm to gatorhata9
quote:THe poster I was quoting said he was average.
Well he's not "average". He's a very high producing Top 10 QB.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 1:37 pm to Rouge
quote:
that does not make it the right decision For every success, I can show you a failure....bears paying Cutler, dolphins paying tannehill, chargers resigning rivers, Dalton in CIN so far
What constitutes a failure?
All the QB can do is play his position at a high level. If we were talking about teams that were otherwise outstanding you'd have a point. But every one of those teams you pointed out has appreciable flaws that do not involve QB play.
I don't get this. The team sucks and all of these other players that are getting paid aren't pulling their weight but let's get rid of the guy that is, and make our team worse in the process?
Posted on 8/29/17 at 1:39 pm to shel311
quote:No argument there. You made it sound like just the Detroit Lions disagreed with you. I might have misread that.
Just because the high majority do it one way does not make them right.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 1:40 pm to Goldrush25
quote:difference between getting rid of Stafford and not paying him like a hall of famer
but let's get rid of the guy that is
Posted on 8/29/17 at 1:42 pm to Rouge
quote:
difference between getting rid of Stafford and not paying him like a hall of famer
You're either going to pay him or another team will. You think the Jets wouldn't pay more for him right now if they could?
In a couple of years he'll be the 5th or 6th highest paid QB. We've seen how these contracts evolve. It's to the Lions advantage to get him locked in now instead of letting Rodgers and Ryan inflate the market.
This post was edited on 8/29/17 at 1:45 pm
Posted on 8/29/17 at 1:42 pm to Rouge
quote:Yeah, the difference is unrealistic. It's either pay him top dollar or let him walk. We've been seeing this for years now. Each offseason we see the "highest paid player in NFL history" headline.
difference between getting rid of Stafford and not paying him like a hall of famer
This post was edited on 8/29/17 at 1:44 pm
Posted on 8/29/17 at 1:44 pm to StrongBackWeakMind
quote:which does not necessarily make it right, as has been said
We've been seeing this for years now.
quote:which shows a desire for personal gain over team success, in my humble opinion
It's either pay him top dollar or let him walk
Posted on 8/29/17 at 1:44 pm to StrongBackWeakMind
quote:Well it was in that specific example, but you're right that most NFL teams would also disagree with me.
No argument there. You made it sound like just the Detroit Lions disagreed with you. I might have misread that.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 1:45 pm to Goldrush25
quote:This should never be on a list of reasons to pay a player.
You're either going to pay him or another team will.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 1:46 pm to Rouge
quote:Right or not right, this is reality.
which does not necessarily make it right, as has been said
quote:Oh give me a break.
which shows a desire for personal gain over team success, in my humble opinion
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