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Lou Piniella- HOF or bad manager?
Posted on 10/3/08 at 12:30 am
Posted on 10/3/08 at 12:30 am
Is Lou Pineiella a HOF manager, good manager, or an underachieving manager?
History-
Yankees ('86-'89) no postseason, finished 2nd, 4th, 5th, had a winning record 224-193
Reds ('90-'92) one post season, 1st season went wire to wire and swept the World Series, 2nd year finished 5th, then went 2nd in the divison. Left the Reds with a total of 255-231, 525%.
Mariners 10 years 840-711 542%, won the divison 3 times, had the most wins in history of baseball, but no World Series, had Arod, Randy Johnson, Griffey, Ichiro, Edgar Martinez, Omar Vizquel
Devil Rays 3 years never won more than 70 games, finished 5th, 4th, 5th in the divison. 200-285 (412%)
Cubs- 2 first place finishes, postseason ,0-5 ???
History-
Yankees ('86-'89) no postseason, finished 2nd, 4th, 5th, had a winning record 224-193
Reds ('90-'92) one post season, 1st season went wire to wire and swept the World Series, 2nd year finished 5th, then went 2nd in the divison. Left the Reds with a total of 255-231, 525%.
Mariners 10 years 840-711 542%, won the divison 3 times, had the most wins in history of baseball, but no World Series, had Arod, Randy Johnson, Griffey, Ichiro, Edgar Martinez, Omar Vizquel
Devil Rays 3 years never won more than 70 games, finished 5th, 4th, 5th in the divison. 200-285 (412%)
Cubs- 2 first place finishes, postseason ,0-5 ???
This post was edited on 10/3/08 at 12:33 am
7
Posted on 10/3/08 at 12:32 am to TigerintheNO
HOF and overrated at the same time. Just like Torre.
Posted on 10/3/08 at 12:32 am to TigerintheNO
HOF manager. Turned around Seattle, set the table for TB, and turned around Chicago for sure (with help of GM). Won a WS with Cincy, did decent with the Yanks...HOF I think.
Posted on 10/3/08 at 12:37 am to AlejandroInHouston
quote:
HOF and overrated at the same time. Just like Torre.
If you would have said Cox, I might have been able to agree with you. But Torre? When was the last time he missed post-season?
BTW- who is the manager of the team the Cubs are down 0-2?
Posted on 10/3/08 at 12:40 am to TexasTiger08
Did any one witness a cubs practice leading up to the NLDS i mean shite, DID anyone tell Soriano you don't swing 2-0 trailing by 5 after the pitcher just walked. HORRIBLE bench them all Saturday!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Line UP
Theriot
Fontenoit
Lee
Ramierz
Edmonds
Soto
Johnson
Derosa
Wood...
Theriot
Fontenoit
Lee
Ramierz
Edmonds
Soto
Johnson
Derosa
Wood...
Posted on 10/3/08 at 5:16 am to TheJonesisabeast
quote:
Theriot
Need to bench him as well. His error was at areal bad time!!!!
Posted on 10/3/08 at 8:40 am to TigerintheNO
quote:
Lou Piniella- HOF or bad manager?
Lou Piniella- HOF yes Bad manager in this series
Posted on 10/3/08 at 9:08 am to TigerintheNO
quote:
If you would have said Cox, I might have been able to agree with you. But Torre? When was the last time he missed post-season?
Cox is a way more underappreciated manager than Torre.
Torre has never had a payroll that isn't head an shoulders above every other team in his division. On paper he should have won the World Series about 3 times as often as he did. He should have GOTTEN to the World Series about 2 times as often as he did.
Posted on 10/3/08 at 9:43 am to TigerintheNO
Pinella’s 1990 World Series is pretty darn impressive, and the Reds sweep was one of the most unlikely champions in baseball history.
That said, he squandered a team with potentially FOUR Hall of Famers (A-Rod, Big Unit, Griffey, and Edgar) in the prime on it in Seattle due to his complete inability to manage a bullpen or keep pitchers healthy. Pinella’s insane work rates for his starters is one of the leading causes of the rise of strict pitch counts. He and Dusty Baker destroyed too many careers and cost teams too much money.
He’s not a terrible manager, but he’s not a great one. A great manager would have won a World Series in Seattle. A great manager would have managed to finish ahead of the Orioles at least once as manager of the Rays.
But he has won in Chicago. He’s good, but I’ll say this: I wouldn’t want him managing my team. I wouldn’t say the same thing about Torre or Cox.
That said, he squandered a team with potentially FOUR Hall of Famers (A-Rod, Big Unit, Griffey, and Edgar) in the prime on it in Seattle due to his complete inability to manage a bullpen or keep pitchers healthy. Pinella’s insane work rates for his starters is one of the leading causes of the rise of strict pitch counts. He and Dusty Baker destroyed too many careers and cost teams too much money.
He’s not a terrible manager, but he’s not a great one. A great manager would have won a World Series in Seattle. A great manager would have managed to finish ahead of the Orioles at least once as manager of the Rays.
But he has won in Chicago. He’s good, but I’ll say this: I wouldn’t want him managing my team. I wouldn’t say the same thing about Torre or Cox.
Posted on 10/3/08 at 11:40 am to Baloo
you can't bench theriot just because of that error..he's been the shortstop all year
Posted on 10/3/08 at 12:24 pm to faddy
quote:
you can't bench theriot just because of that error..he's been the shortstop all year
he wasn't given an error when he tried to barehand the ground ball...although he should have been
Posted on 10/3/08 at 12:27 pm to TigerintheNO
He is a good manager, hard to blame those Mariner failures on him. Griffey was never able to lead a team deep in the playoffs, The Big Unit needed Scill, and we all know A-Rod is anti-clutch. Now if we could only get Lou to bend his bill
Posted on 10/3/08 at 12:30 pm to bwallcubfan
quote:
he wasn't given an error when he tried to barehand the ground ball...although he should have been
come on with a hit and run on there was no way any shortstop makes that play. just a damn good call by torre that worked out
Posted on 10/3/08 at 12:38 pm to CE Tiger
If he had tried to use his glove and still missed it, i would say it wasn't an error...but he didn't so I'm going with it should have been snagged.
I don't know if I would say "no shortshop" could make that play.
It was a good call by Torre though
I don't know if I would say "no shortshop" could make that play.
It was a good call by Torre though
Posted on 10/3/08 at 2:12 pm to Baloo
quote:
Pinella’s 1990 World Series is pretty darn impressive, and the Reds sweep was one of the most unlikely champions in baseball history.
That said, he squandered a team with potentially FOUR Hall of Famers (A-Rod, Big Unit, Griffey, and Edgar) in the prime on it in Seattle due to his complete inability to manage a bullpen or keep pitchers healthy. Pinella’s insane work rates for his starters is one of the leading causes of the rise of strict pitch counts. He and Dusty Baker destroyed too many careers and cost teams too much money.
He’s not a terrible manager, but he’s not a great one. A great manager would have won a World Series in Seattle. A great manager would have managed to finish ahead of the Orioles at least once as manager of the Rays.
But he has won in Chicago. He’s good, but I’ll say this: I wouldn’t want him managing my team. I wouldn’t say the same thing about Torre or Cox.
Disagree. He had bullpens full of guys who were always getting hurt. Maybe they should have invested more money in trainers, who knows.
I think it's hard to simply say, great managers would have won the World Series during this time. They were good in the same time the Yankee dynasty was around. Cleveland had some damn good teams back in that era as well. shite, the Indians should have won a series if anyone...frickers break my heart every time I put any expectations on them. Anyway, with that being said, I'd take Lou managing my team any day of the week.
Posted on 10/14/08 at 11:20 pm to TigerintheNO
quote:
If you would have said Cox, I might have been able to agree with you. But Torre? When was the last time he missed post-season?
I feel vindicated after last night's game. Torre flat out blew that game for the Dodgers.
Posted on 10/14/08 at 11:27 pm to AlejandroInHouston
quote:
Just like Torre.
No
Posted on 10/15/08 at 6:56 am to BayouBengals03
did you watch game 4?
worst managing ever.
Torre is overrated.
worst managing ever.
Torre is overrated.
Posted on 10/15/08 at 7:19 am to TigerintheNO
quote:
Lou Piniella- HOF or bad manager?
Look what happened to Bobby Cox, when they quit buying him HOF players for the team....I'm not saying Lou's a great, bad, average or any other kind of manager. But most managers can look great if they are given an awesome pitching staff & 3 or 4 great position players.
Posted on 10/15/08 at 7:26 am to Skillet
quote:
Look what happened to Bobby Cox, when they quit buying him HOF players for the team
the Braves bought hall of fame players?
Maddux is the only person that comes to mind
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