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Started By
Message
re: Let's do a vote. Death Penalty for Penn State?
Posted on 7/18/12 at 9:47 am to LNCHBOX
Posted on 7/18/12 at 9:47 am to LNCHBOX
quote:
According to whom? They decided to put the man in power; therefore, they think he will do a good job representing the university.
A similar analogy would be an AD being fired for a string of bad coaching hires. Is the AD not responsible for the coaches he hires?
Please shoot yourself then if you voted for Obama. Right?
1
Posted on 7/18/12 at 9:48 am to fastedLSU
quote:
Please shoot yourself then if you voted for Obama
Good thing I didn't then.
Posted on 7/18/12 at 9:50 am to LNCHBOX
quote:
A similar analogy would be an AD being fired for a string of bad coaching hires. Is the AD not responsible for the coaches he hires?
The AD is responsible for the hiring of the coaches, not the actions of the coaches.
This is why I brought up the point about negligent hiring. That is all you can hold the BOT responsible for. You can't impute shower butt-frickings and the cover-up of the same back to the BOT if they knew nothing about it. The most you can conclude is that they were negligent in hiring.
Posted on 7/18/12 at 9:51 am to LNCHBOX
quote:
I'm not saying they are criminally responsible.
Of course they aren't criminally responsible. I'm talking civil liability.
Posted on 7/18/12 at 11:47 am to T
quote:
You worked at enron and are still pissed you lost your job huh? You're an idiot.
A former penn st player was just on wwl defending penn st, paterno & pretty much everybody involved. The interview was a perfect example of how screwed up these penn st people are.
Notice you said FORMER player. Also note that "pretty much everyone involved", are no longer are affiliated with the university.
"Those Penn State People"...who exactly is that? Are we to assume that everyone working there now is a baby punching, child raping, pervert because they are on campus?
You punish to deal damage to parties involved and to make people not want to repeat the punishable offense. One problem with that theory in this case, the people that were demented enough to allow this to happen are NO LONGER THERE.
Tell me what will be accomplished by issuing the death penalty on their football program. Nothing.
You people whining about "Well when do you use the death penalty if not now?!?!". The NCAA issues the death penalty in cases where a competetive advantage is gained on the field. The most notable violation was the SMU debaccle, where players were getting paid. This was otherwise legal, BUT against NCAA rules.
As far as NCAA rules are concerned, the Penn State Football program violated none.
Again, the spirit of the punishment, I get it. We live in a country where "someone has to pay", regardless of their involvement or guilt. This is a very poor way to go about things. By not issuing the death penalty, it doesn't mean you are condoning what happened.
Posted on 7/18/12 at 11:53 am to dcrews
quote:
One problem with that theory in this case, the people that were demented enough to allow this to happen are NO LONGER THERE.
See USC
quote:
Tell me what will be accomplished by issuing the death penalty on their football program
Punishment for allowing this to occur over a decade within the program.
quote:
The NCAA issues the death penalty in cases where a competetive advantage is gained on the field.
Was JoePa himself not an advantage as players wanted to go to PSU to play for him. Was Sandusky at one time not considered a top end coach?
Posted on 7/18/12 at 12:01 pm to CajunFootball
quote:
Was JoePa himself not an advantage as players wanted to go to PSU to play for him.
I've already voiced my complete opinion in this topic, but to answer this question, not in the last 10 years. I don't even think he was actively involved in recruiting during this time. Also, as a potential commit, if you watched a PSU game during the last several years and saw your potential future coach eating nachos, drooling, and staring at the wall in the press box during a game, I don't think his name helped. Now many years ago and possibly during a few years of this scandal? Yes, I would agree with that.
Posted on 7/18/12 at 12:09 pm to CajunFootball
quote:
See USC
WRONG. The culture/people that caused that issue is STILL THERE and it was a direct link to ON THE FIELD competitive advantage because of the way it affected recruiting. Pete Carrol is gone, however the individuals that caused the problem are/were still very much active. USC is a terrible example, considering they didn't receive the death penalty.
quote:
Punishment for allowing this to occur over a decade within the program.
WRONG. Punishment for who? You aren't punishing Sandusky. You aren't punishing Jo Pa. Anyone who allowed this to happen isn't at Penn State anymore. You aren't punishing anyone who had anything to do with it.
quote:
Was JoePa himself not an advantage as players wanted to go to PSU to play for him. Was Sandusky at one time not considered a top end coach?
Ready for this? WRONG again. Jo Pa, the football program nor the university were or had Sandusky molesting kids to gain a competive advantage on the field.
I'm not saying PSU shouldn't receive some sort of sanctions, scholarship losses, or post season bans. However, the death penalty is a COMPLETE and TOTAL overreaction to this. You are hurting more people than you are punishing at this point if you issue the DP.
This post was edited on 7/18/12 at 12:11 pm
Posted on 7/18/12 at 12:13 pm to CajunFootball
This is what I would do:
1) allow any player to transfer without sitting out
2) void all football wins during the Sandusky era from both psu and joe pa
3) remove the name or statue of everyone involved with the cover-up from the psu campus
4) ban psu from post season play for three years
5) everyone that can be proven to have known of the cover up be removed from any NCAA school
6) all money generated by psu football be give to charity for three years.
Psu failing to implement these punishments will result in the suspension of psu football for three years.
1) allow any player to transfer without sitting out
2) void all football wins during the Sandusky era from both psu and joe pa
3) remove the name or statue of everyone involved with the cover-up from the psu campus
4) ban psu from post season play for three years
5) everyone that can be proven to have known of the cover up be removed from any NCAA school
6) all money generated by psu football be give to charity for three years.
Psu failing to implement these punishments will result in the suspension of psu football for three years.
Posted on 7/18/12 at 12:21 pm to Wtxtiger
quote:
This is what I would do:
1) allow any player to transfer without sitting out
2) void all football wins during the Sandusky era from both psu and joe pa
3) remove the name or statue of everyone involved with the cover-up from the psu campus
4) ban psu from post season play for three years
5) everyone that can be proven to have known of the cover up be removed from any NCAA school
6) all money generated by psu football be give to charity for three years.
Psu failing to implement these punishments will result in the suspension of psu football for three years.
I can see all of these happening, but #6 is a bit much. Granted that depends on whether or not you consider "money generated" before or after it helps academic programs or other sports programs within the university.
Posted on 7/18/12 at 12:39 pm to dcrews
#6 could be net revenue.
i'd add a tv ban for at least one year.
i'd add a tv ban for at least one year.
Posted on 7/18/12 at 12:40 pm to dcrews
Very few programs generate $ that goes back directly to academics. Other athletic programs is a whole different ballgame.
If PSU gets the DP it will send the whole athletic program in a tailspin. They will be operating a D1 program on D3 dollars. Do the baseball players, swimmers, soccer players, etc. deserve that?
If PSU gets the DP it will send the whole athletic program in a tailspin. They will be operating a D1 program on D3 dollars. Do the baseball players, swimmers, soccer players, etc. deserve that?
Posted on 7/18/12 at 1:02 pm to Wtxtiger
quote:
This is what I would do:
1) allow any player to transfer without sitting out
2) void all football wins during the Sandusky era from both psu and joe pa
3) remove the name or statue of everyone involved with the cover-up from the psu campus
4) ban psu from post season play for three years
5) everyone that can be proven to have known of the cover up be removed from any NCAA school
6) all money generated by psu football be give to charity for three years.
Psu failing to implement these punishments will result in the suspension of psu football for three years.
Posted on 7/18/12 at 1:08 pm to dcrews
You have to be one of the most retarded people I've seen post on here. Are you 50 or something TYPING WITH CAPS TO GET YOUR POINT ACCROSS? I was unaware anyone other then PeeJ did that.
You must have not understood my point. You clearly said that the people were no longer there so PSU should not get punished, death penalty or otherwise. In my USC example the head coach had moved on to another school and a lot of that coaching staff had moved on. A few, if any, of the players on the team when the sanctions were issued had been on the team when the scandal occured.
I guess you still do not understand that it is about more then punishing a person. In both sports and everday life business and institutions are punished for the actions of past employees. Just because the person who did the act no longer is employeed doesn't mean the employeer isn't a fault.
It was a deliberate cover up so that light would not shine poorly upon the program or the school. You once again did not understand my point and only twisted it so you could fit it into your objective. The act of raping kids did not lead to any sort of advantage. The fact that JoePa and Sandusky were still allowed to coach during the scandal is the advantage.
I fail to see this. You are putting PSU football on a pedestal and allowing it to get by because no player had any involvement. Guess what? Life is a bitch...
quote:
USC is a terrible example, considering they didn't receive the death penalty
You must have not understood my point. You clearly said that the people were no longer there so PSU should not get punished, death penalty or otherwise. In my USC example the head coach had moved on to another school and a lot of that coaching staff had moved on. A few, if any, of the players on the team when the sanctions were issued had been on the team when the scandal occured.
quote:
WRONG. Punishment for who? You aren't punishing Sandusky. You aren't punishing Jo Pa. Anyone who allowed this to happen isn't at Penn State anymore. You aren't punishing anyone who had anything to do with it.
I guess you still do not understand that it is about more then punishing a person. In both sports and everday life business and institutions are punished for the actions of past employees. Just because the person who did the act no longer is employeed doesn't mean the employeer isn't a fault.
quote:
Jo Pa, the football program nor the university were or had Sandusky molesting kids to gain a competive advantage on the field.
It was a deliberate cover up so that light would not shine poorly upon the program or the school. You once again did not understand my point and only twisted it so you could fit it into your objective. The act of raping kids did not lead to any sort of advantage. The fact that JoePa and Sandusky were still allowed to coach during the scandal is the advantage.
quote:
You are hurting more people than you are punishing at this point if you issue the DP.
I fail to see this. You are putting PSU football on a pedestal and allowing it to get by because no player had any involvement. Guess what? Life is a bitch...
Posted on 7/18/12 at 1:24 pm to CajunFootball
quote:
You must have not understood my point. You clearly said that the people were no longer there so PSU should not get punished, death penalty or otherwise. In my USC example the head coach had moved on to another school and a lot of that coaching staff had moved on. A few, if any, of the players on the team when the sanctions were issued had been on the team when the scandal occured.
And did they get the DP? Nope. Next question.
quote:
I guess you still do not understand that it is about more then punishing a person. In both sports and everday life business and institutions are punished for the actions of past employees. Just because the person who did the act no longer is employeed doesn't mean the employeer isn't a fault.
Who is the employer in this case? You can't just say "Penn State deserves it bc they hired him". Who is "they"? It's the people that aren't there. The people in place now had ZERO to do with hiring Sandusky or Jo Pa.
quote:
I fail to see this. You are putting PSU football on a pedestal and allowing it to get by because no player had any involvement. Guess what? Life is a bitch...
This is the weakest argument I've seen yet. "Life's a bitch", so we should not use any intelligence in a decision to deal out a punishment that affects vastly more innocent people than it does guilty parties. Let's just throw every other sport down the tube financially, cause hundreds if not thousands of people to lose their jobs because, well...Life's a bitch.
Posted on 7/18/12 at 1:29 pm to fastedLSU
quote:
If PSU gets the DP it will send the whole athletic program in a tailspin. They will be operating a D1 program on D3 dollars. Do the baseball players, swimmers, soccer players, etc. deserve that?
I agree. Just too many other things would be affected by issuing the death penalty. Punishment should absolutely be handed out, but the DP is too harsh in my opinion.
Posted on 7/18/12 at 1:30 pm to dcrews
quote:
thousands of people to lose their jobs
This many people would lose their job because PSU wouldn't be allowed to play football?
ETA: I'm not calling for the DP I'm just saying that if they hit PSU hard then I wouldn't be shocked nor would I feel bad for them.
This post was edited on 7/18/12 at 1:32 pm
Posted on 7/18/12 at 1:32 pm to CajunFootball
Posted on 7/18/12 at 1:32 pm to PuntBamaPunt
Posted on 7/18/12 at 1:52 pm to PuntBamaPunt
This pic is precisely the reason why the statue needs to come down. This type of stuff will only escalate.
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