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Message
re: Is Kobe Bryant a Top 10 All Time Great Player
Posted on 6/16/13 at 11:46 am to DURANTULA
Posted on 6/16/13 at 11:46 am to DURANTULA
quote:
I'd definitely take Kobe over Russell. Russell's legacy is SEVERELY overinflated because of those titles. He was never the alpha on those teams. NEVER.
Russell was "alpha" as frick. What are you talking about? His competitiveness is up there with Jordan's.
This post was edited on 6/16/13 at 11:48 am
1
Posted on 6/16/13 at 11:49 am to mikelowery1911
This thread has caused a shite storm of differing opinions on so many different topics 
Posted on 6/16/13 at 11:49 am to Vicks Kennel Club
This is problem with these kinds with using rate statistics for this kind of comparison.
(These are regular season statistics)
D-Wade has played in approx 83% of his teams games during his 10 year career and approx 64% of his possible minutes
Kobe has played in approx 92% of his teams possible games in his 17 year career and 70% of his team possible minutes.
I'm just highlighting this to show as Vicks said, you can't discount all of Wade's missed games. Granted, Wade may have been slightly more efficient than Kobe in recent seasons, but that is offset by the fact that he isn't on the court as often and therefore is replaced by a player who is more than likely much less efficient than Wade.
However, as I have learned in my studies- When you try to bring in stats to oversimplify a question (is player A> Player B), the only thing you will get from it is a lot of biased discourse and no good answer haha.
(These are regular season statistics)
D-Wade has played in approx 83% of his teams games during his 10 year career and approx 64% of his possible minutes
Kobe has played in approx 92% of his teams possible games in his 17 year career and 70% of his team possible minutes.
I'm just highlighting this to show as Vicks said, you can't discount all of Wade's missed games. Granted, Wade may have been slightly more efficient than Kobe in recent seasons, but that is offset by the fact that he isn't on the court as often and therefore is replaced by a player who is more than likely much less efficient than Wade.
However, as I have learned in my studies- When you try to bring in stats to oversimplify a question (is player A> Player B), the only thing you will get from it is a lot of biased discourse and no good answer haha.
Posted on 6/16/13 at 11:52 am to PianoTiger
Russell was not alpha. At most, he was the second scoring option on those Celtics teams. Usually he was the third or 4th option. He was their Dennis Rodman (lock down the paint and snag those boards).
Posted on 6/16/13 at 12:16 pm to Jelly
quote:Those are all absolutely fair points.
D-Wade has played in approx 83% of his teams games during his 10 year career and approx 64% of his possible minutes Kobe has played in approx 92% of his teams possible games in his 17 year career and 70% of his team possible minutes. I'm just highlighting this to show as Vicks said, you can't discount all of Wade's missed games. Granted, Wade may have been slightly more efficient than Kobe in recent seasons, but that is offset by the fact that he isn't on the court as often and therefore is replaced by a player who is more than likely much less efficient than Wade.
I'm not saying this is the end all be all, but just to confirm, you are saying that if it was one game for your life, game 7,you're taking Wade right? You mentioned he's been more efficient. Granted you said in recent seasons, but it's been really over his career he's been nor efficient than Kobe, just about anyway you view the data.
Posted on 6/16/13 at 12:30 pm to shel311
In this vacuum scenario I would rather have Kobe for the simple fact I like 2-guards to be a threat from 3-PT range.
But that's a vacuum. If you change some of the parameters Wade's game may be a better fit.
But that's a vacuum. If you change some of the parameters Wade's game may be a better fit.
Posted on 6/16/13 at 12:50 pm to Jelly
i think if Kobe averaged more than 2.8 career assists per game he'd be in the top 10
Posted on 6/16/13 at 12:54 pm to Florida225
quote:so you're saying in the top 10 then
i think if Kobe averaged more than 2.8 career assists per game he'd be in the top 10
Posted on 6/16/13 at 12:55 pm to Jelly
quote:I disagree but fair enough.
In this vacuum scenario I would rather have Kobe for the simple fact I like 2-guards to be a threat from 3-PT range. But that's a vacuum. If you change some of the parameters Wade's game may be a better fit.
Posted on 6/16/13 at 12:55 pm to Florida225
And the only worse than using stats incorrectly, is using fake stats. 
Kobe has averaged 4.8 per game his career (And just to get it out of the way Jordan averaged 5.3 and Wade averaged 6.1, Lebron 6.9, Tebow 0.0, Tiger Woods 100 million dollars divorce settlement (worst assist ever))
Kobe has averaged 4.8 per game his career (And just to get it out of the way Jordan averaged 5.3 and Wade averaged 6.1, Lebron 6.9, Tebow 0.0, Tiger Woods 100 million dollars divorce settlement (worst assist ever))
Posted on 6/16/13 at 12:58 pm to shel311
I think he's top 15, but if he distributed the ball more he'd without a doubt be top 10. He's still sitting at like 12 or 13 though which is a remarkable number to be considered as.
Posted on 6/16/13 at 1:01 pm to shel311
Oh lord, a civil discourse on the MSB. Its the big one Elizabeth! I'm coming to join ya!
Posted on 6/16/13 at 1:08 pm to Florida225
quote:
I think he's top 15, but if he distributed the ball more he'd without a doubt be top 10. He's still sitting at like 12 or 13 though which is a remarkable number to be considered as.
Posted on 6/16/13 at 1:15 pm to mikelowery1911
I agree with that statement. I would put guys like Duncan and Hakeem just ahead of him. Magic and Bird for sure. He's right there with Jerry West. People tend to overrate Kobe a bit because of the way he was marketed, the way he played (81 points, crazy shots, flashy) and where he played. Leading the Lakers to those two championships in 2009 and 2010 helped his cause a lot, though.
Posted on 6/16/13 at 1:16 pm to DURANTULA
quote:
Kareems's skill was the sky hook. He's nowhere close to the most skilled center, much less most skilled big man in NBA history.
quote:
Russell was not alpha. At most, he was the second scoring option on those Celtics teams. Usually he was the third or 4th option. He was their Dennis Rodman (lock down the paint and snag those boards).
Checking back into this thread and seeing Durantula has gone full retard. Responding to this clown is not worth the time clearly.
On this Father's Day, Durantula, it's clear your father never loved you.
Posted on 6/16/13 at 1:18 pm to RonBurgundy
It's another gamecockalum alter. His love of comic book movies and terrible NBA posts out him every time
Posted on 6/16/13 at 1:24 pm to mattz1122
quote:
Leading the Lakers to those two championships in 2009 and 2010 helped his cause a lot, though.
It put him into the top 5 debate. He won back to back with an also ran cast. None of the other players on those teams will ever be voted on for a top 50, top 100, or top 200 players of all time team.
Posted on 6/16/13 at 1:30 pm to tiger2012
quote:
He won back to back with an also ran cast.
Posted on 6/16/13 at 1:33 pm to DURANTULA
quote:
Facts: Bill Russell never averaged more than 19 ppg and his career FG% was 44%. Facts: Wilt Chamberlain averaged more than 19 ppg his first 12 seasons in the NBA, had 10 of 24 ppg or more, had 7 of 30 ppg or more, had 5 of 35 ppg or more, and had two of over 44 ppg. He shot 54% for his career.
RUSSELL>>>>>>>>>> WILT.........
quote:
Russell is not the greatest defensive player of all-time, not by a long shot
You are a DIPSHIT......And know NOTHING about the old NBA except your stupid stats.........
quote:
Facts: Wilt Chamberlain led the NBA in RPG 11 times. Bill Russell only did it 5 times and 3 of those came before Wilt made it to the NBA.
Titles......... Russell or Wilt..............
Posted on 6/16/13 at 1:53 pm to shel311
I am under the impression that this is for their careers as a whole, not a one game scenario.
I would think that the hypothetical is this: if you could draft any player for their entire career for your team, then who would you draft?
I would pick Jordan first, Kareem second, Wilt third. Kobe would assuredly be in this top ten. I still have Magic over Kobe and possibly a few others. I honestly believe there are only 3-5 players who definitely had better careers for sure and then about 7-10 others who can be in the discussion for a better career. Duncan, Shaq, Russell, Bird, Hakeem, etc.
As of now, I am excluding Lebron from career arguments. I am protecting him to finish second all time fwiw.
I would think that the hypothetical is this: if you could draft any player for their entire career for your team, then who would you draft?
I would pick Jordan first, Kareem second, Wilt third. Kobe would assuredly be in this top ten. I still have Magic over Kobe and possibly a few others. I honestly believe there are only 3-5 players who definitely had better careers for sure and then about 7-10 others who can be in the discussion for a better career. Duncan, Shaq, Russell, Bird, Hakeem, etc.
As of now, I am excluding Lebron from career arguments. I am protecting him to finish second all time fwiw.
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