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Started By
Message
re: Is James Harden the most overrated player in NBA history?
Posted on 4/20/16 at 4:08 pm to PrimeTime Money
Posted on 4/20/16 at 4:08 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
What a dumb set of arbitrary rules you came up with.
quote:No, titles are way down on the list of what makes you an all time great. They win because they're all time greats, it's LOL funny to assert it the other way around like you tried to do.
Those players become "all-time greats" BECAUSE they won a title.
Those guys win AND are all time greats, as in, clearly decidedly better than Harden.
quote:Exclude who? That's my point, they're ball dominant guys(not really on Curry) who won a title because they're better than Harden at it, that's my point.
And secondly, why do you exclude them? They were ball-dominant players who won a title.
quote:Who am I excluding?
You don't want to include all of those guys because it destroys your argument that ball-dominant players can't win titles.
quote:Already addressed Dirk in the other thread when you ignored it and called me an idiot. But hey, I guess Dirk is as ball dominant as Harden, and Harden is as good as Kobe. Ho Hum.
And there are others like Kobe and Dirk.
1
Posted on 4/20/16 at 4:08 pm to PrimeTime Money
His argument is based on the Spurs and Warriors winning the last 2 titles and that they didn't have a ball dominant player. Well the Spurs played possibly the best series in League history and GSW is maybe the best team in league history so ball dominant teams not being able to beat those 2 teams IS NOT proof that a ball dominant team can't win. He's being a prisoner of the moment.
Posted on 4/20/16 at 4:12 pm to Dr RC
If you wanna compare Harden to AI... let's do that. Let's take AI's NBA Finals year and compare it to Harden this year. Let's compare per 36 numbers to get them on an even basis since they didn't play the exact amount of minutes:
Iverson:
26.7 pts, 3.9 asst, 3.3 reb, 49.6% ts%
35.9% usg%
Harden:
27.4 pts, 7.1 asst, 5.8 reb, 59.8% ts% 32.5% usg%
Harden scores more points, has more assists, more rebounds, shoots a much higher percentage, and does it with a lower usage percentage than Iverson.
Iverson:
26.7 pts, 3.9 asst, 3.3 reb, 49.6% ts%
35.9% usg% Harden:
27.4 pts, 7.1 asst, 5.8 reb, 59.8% ts% 32.5% usg%
Harden scores more points, has more assists, more rebounds, shoots a much higher percentage, and does it with a lower usage percentage than Iverson.
Posted on 4/20/16 at 4:14 pm to Boomshockalocka
quote:It's not, I addressed ball dominant players.
His argument is based on the Spurs and Warriors winning the last 2 titles and that they didn't have a ball dominant player
Still waiting on PrimeTime to give me the precedent...he avoids that every time, probably 2-3 times I've asked him.
quote:Lebron beat the Spurs, so I don't think you're following this one very well.
so ball dominant teams not being able to beat those 2 teams IS NOT proof that a ball dominant team can't win. He's being a prisoner of the moment.
You need 1 or the other, a DAL/GS/SAS style offense, or an elite ball dominant guy. that's not some outlandish statement, I'd think we can all agree on that, it's kinda factual based on the teams we've seen win titles.
Posted on 4/20/16 at 4:15 pm to PrimeTime Money
How many titles did AI win? You made literally the same exact point last time about OKC(I think it was you at least)...you keep giving me examples of teams that did not win titles as proof on a topic that involves winning titles.
Give me the precedent...
Give me the precedent...
This post was edited on 4/20/16 at 4:16 pm
Posted on 4/20/16 at 4:16 pm to shel311
You are telling me to name ball-dominant players who have won titles, yet you are excluding every ball-dominant player who has won titles.
It's an idiotic argument on your part.
It's like me saying "name me every MVP winner in the past 50 years who has averaged over 25 points per game, except you can't name Jordan, or Curry, or Kobe, or LeBron, or Olajuwon, or Kareem, or...."
It's an idiotic argument on your part.
It's like me saying "name me every MVP winner in the past 50 years who has averaged over 25 points per game, except you can't name Jordan, or Curry, or Kobe, or LeBron, or Olajuwon, or Kareem, or...."
Posted on 4/20/16 at 4:19 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:AGAIN, who have I excluded in recent memory? Who are the guys I excluded...
You are telling me to name ball-dominant players who have won titles, yet you are excluding every ball-dominant player who has won titles
Just weird that you've said that 2 or 3 times AFTER I've named the ball dominant guys, and yet are avoiding any question I ask you, why can't you answer these simple questions if it's soooooo obvious?
quote:If it's so idiotic, why can't you give me the precedent?
It's an idiotic argument on your part.
quote:It's nothing like that, no need for namecalling when you obviously can't keep up with a simple premise. Not sure what the deal is, but it's usually obvious why guys resort to namecalling, and it seems like the case here, because you can't either keep up with the premise(which isn't flawed) or you know you're boxed in so you're upset and lashing out. It's odd, no need for it to be honest.
It's like me saying "name me every MVP winner in the past 50 years who has averaged over 25 points per game, except you can't name Jordan, or Curry, or Kobe, or LeBron, or Olajuwon, or Kareem, or...."
Give me the precedent...
This post was edited on 4/20/16 at 4:20 pm
Posted on 4/20/16 at 4:23 pm to shel311
The point is that there is a precedent of ball-dominant players winning titles, but you say I have to exclude them from the list. I can't name Jordan or LeBron or Wade or Kobe or Dirk or Curry, etc.
You can't tell me to name the precedent and then tell me I must exclude the precedent. It's idiotic.
You can't tell me to name the precedent and then tell me I must exclude the precedent. It's idiotic.
Posted on 4/20/16 at 4:28 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:4th time, when did I say that? Why won't you answer that.
but you say I have to exclude them from the list.
quote:I never did, therein lies YOUR issue.
You can't tell me to name the precedent and then tell me I must exclude the precedent. It's idiotic.
Fwiw, Dirk won a title with more of a team oriented offense, no?
Posted on 4/20/16 at 4:32 pm to Macintosh
Dwight Howard
Posted on 4/20/16 at 4:32 pm to shel311
Going back to this:
Neither was Lebron, until he joined up with 2 other top 10 players.
quote:
But as I've said and is becoming more evident as the games/seasons go by, he's not good enough at his style of play to be the #1 guy on a title team.
Neither was Lebron, until he joined up with 2 other top 10 players.
Posted on 4/20/16 at 4:35 pm to Boomshockalocka
So lebron wasn't the best player in the league before year 2 Miami? 
Posted on 4/20/16 at 4:37 pm to shel311
quote:
4th time, when did I say that? Why won't you answer that.
You said it here:
quote:You are telling me to name ball-dominant players who have won a title... except for all of the ball-dominant players who have won a title. I'm not allowed to name those.
As I've asked, was called retard/idiot, and got no response, give me the precedent for the team with a guy as ball dominant as Harden but not all time great status(MJ/Lebron/2006 Wade/Curry) winning a title.
quote:Dirk's usg% in 2011 was 28.2. Harden's usg% with the Rockets is 30.2 Very similar.
Fwiw, Dirk won a title with more of a team oriented offense, no?
Kobe has had several years with a usg% of over 35% and even a year over 38%. Jordan's career usg% is 33.3%.
Lebron's usg% for his career is 31.6%, and Curry's this year is 32.6%.
Posted on 4/20/16 at 4:39 pm to shel311
quote:
So lebron wasn't the best player in the league before year 2 Miami?
Yes..
Was it "good enough to win a title"? NO it wasn't, not until he made a super friends team.
Posted on 4/20/16 at 4:39 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:did you intentionally ignore the multiple times I named them?
You are telling me to name ball-dominant players who have won a title... except for all of the ball-dominant players who have won a title. I'm not allowed to name those.
Point is, no one thinks Harden is as good as those guys. Well, you think he's as good as lebron offensively, so therein also lies another issue.
Posted on 4/20/16 at 4:40 pm to Boomshockalocka
quote:Man...
Yes..
Was it "good enough to win a title"? NO it wasn't, not until he made a super friends team.
Posted on 4/20/16 at 4:40 pm to shel311
quote:He was but even he didn't win a title until he teamed up with another hall-of-fame player and another all-star.
So lebron wasn't the best player in the league before year 2 Miami?
Jordan didn't win until he got Scottie Pippen and Phil Jackson.
Curry didn't win until he got all-stars like Thompson, Green, and a new coach.
Wade didn't win in 2006 until he got Shaq.
Shaq and Kobe didn't win until they combined forces.
It takes more than one star player to win a 'ship. Harden has not truly had another star player with him yet.
Posted on 4/20/16 at 4:43 pm to shel311
quote:You named them and said I couldn't use those.
did you intentionally ignore the multiple times I named them?
quote:I do think he is as good as LeBron offensively. And even if he's not, it's not like they are worlds apart, so it's a moot point.
Point is, no one thinks Harden is as good as those guys. Well, you think he's as good as lebron offensively, so therein also lies another issue.
Posted on 4/20/16 at 4:43 pm to PrimeTime Money
James Haren OS overrated as hell. You honestly can't defend his play anymore. There's a reason people call the tickets SwagChamps
Posted on 4/20/16 at 4:43 pm to shel311
So if the best player in the league couldn't win a title as the ball dominant man(until teaming up with Wade and Bosh), and Harden isn't the best player in the league, then why do you bring it up every 10th post that Harden can't win as the ball dominant player. The best player in the league couldn't even do it.
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