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Started By
Message
re: In depth debate on who the GOAT is. Lebron? MJ?
Posted on 7/10/19 at 12:32 am to JayWalkTiger
Posted on 7/10/19 at 12:32 am to JayWalkTiger
quote:Michael Jordan
who the GOAT is
0
Posted on 7/10/19 at 8:39 am to xiv
quote:
Lebron James is a better basketball player than Michael Jordan was. It is mathematically impossible for you to win this argument.
Ah the typical pseudo intellectual. Trying to prove a subjective pure opinion based on objective data. How about we base it on finals win %? That isn’t the best metric but it def defies your argument and perceived superiority.
Posted on 7/10/19 at 9:03 am to Hoops
Dude still hasn’t told me the time MJ choked in the Finals much less the playoffs when he was busy averaging 35-7-6 lol
Posted on 7/10/19 at 9:09 am to Rep520
quote:
In go ahead shots in the playoffs with under 5 seconds to play, MJ is 5-11, LeBron is 6-13.
As with most LeBron/MJ comparisons, it's basically a dead heat. That said, the people who act like MJ has a huge clutch edge aren't right.
LeBron's clutch production has been at MJ's level.
Sorry was too busy watching MJ average 41 ppg on 51% FG to single-handedly carry the Bulls to their 3peat over the Suns as well as the Flu Game on the road in Utah to read
Posted on 7/10/19 at 10:01 am to ThePTExperience1969
quote:Who were some of your favorite Milwaukee Bucks in 1986 when they 3-1’d Jordan in the first round?
Michael Jordan and bums vs Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, Dennis Johnson, Danny Ainge, Bill Walton, Jerry Sichting, Sam Vincent, Scott Wedman, Greg Kite, etc
When Jordan had no help, he chased stats and got an early summer. When James had no help, he took them to the finals.
Who were all those Nets and Bullets and Bucks and Pacers players who led their teams to higher seeds than the Bulls? Who were their amazing coaches?
Jordan just didn’t have a killer instinct like Lebron. He wanted to score a lot of points and wasn’t focused on winning.
Posted on 7/10/19 at 10:54 am to xiv
quote:
When James had no help, he was lucky enough to play in the sorry arse East
Posted on 7/10/19 at 11:16 am to Hoops
quote:Whether or not this point holds water, James is significantly better than anyone on any team Jordan faced, so if he couldn’t get past those 1980’s eastern teams, he damn sure couldn’t get past Lebron.
When James had no help, he was lucky enough to play in the sorry arse East
Regardless of how strong Lebron’s east was, the 2007 Pistons were a phenomenal team playing The best defense ever seen this century...and Lebron scored 29 of Cleveland’s last 30 points, burying Detroit worse than Jordan ever buried anybody.
And he did that at 22. Jordan at 22 Didn’t even get his team to the playoffs in an age when only 7 of 23 teams missed the playoffs.
Speaking of eastern strength, just how strong were the Nets, Bucks, Pacers, and Bullets teams who were seeded ahead of the Bulls? Why couldn’t Jordan lead his team to a better record than any of those? Are those the strong eastern teams you mean?
Jordan just took until age 27 to develope the killer instinct that Lebron had by age 22.
This post was edited on 7/10/19 at 11:20 am
Posted on 7/10/19 at 11:25 am to xiv
quote:
Jordan just took until age 27 to develope the killer instinct that Lebron had by age 22.
Where was that LeBron "killer instinct" in the Finals that year, bro?
Posted on 7/10/19 at 11:25 am to xiv
Regardless of which side you're taking in the great debate, there's no denying how impressive these numbers are.
Stolen from r/lakers
tldr -
Stolen from r/lakers
tldr -
quote:
TLDR: By the end of this coming season, LeBron James will be top-5 all time in points, made fields goals, made free-throws, and turnovers. He will also be top-10 all time in assists, and top-15 all time steals and 3-pointers
quote:
LeBron is 17th all-time in steals. He needs 14 to pass Kobe for 16th. Easy peasy. But he needs 119 to pass Mookie Blaylock (13th), and 129 to pass Karl Malone for 18th (1.6 steals per game). He'll probably finish 14th this year and move into the top 10 the year after. Unless, you know, LeCost TM
quote:
LeBron is 112th all-time in blocks. He needs 27 blocks this year to pass Scottie Pippen for 104th. To move into the top 100, he'll need around 70 (nearly one per game). But honestly these rankings will shift around a lot this year, so it's hard to tell where LeBron will end up. Probably 101 this year, but into the top 100 next year.
quote:
LeBron is 8th all-time in made free throws. He needs 21 makes to pass Jerry West for 7th and 101 to pass Dirk for 6th. He will get that. With 194 he will pass MJ (very likely). He would need 555 to pass The Big O for 4th, but that would require 7 made free throws per game, which would be possible but rough on an aging LeBron.
quote:
LeBron is 4th all time in career turnovers. He only needs 82 more to pass John Stockton for 3rd place, and 102 to pass Moses Malone (a sure thing). But he would need 362 to claim the all-time record from Karl Malone (4-5 turnovers per game). That probably won't happen, but maybe next year.
quote:
LeBron is 4th all-time in points. He needs 1101 exactly to pass Kobe Bryant for 3rd, which is almost certain to happen. He just needs 13.5 points per game for the season (or 16 per game if he only plays 70 games). He needs 4386 to pass Karl Malone for 2nd. That's not happening this year. He needs 5845 to pass Kareem for the all-time record, which would mean 24 points per game, every game for the next three years. He might actually pass Kareem in his 4th season as a Laker, and it would be at the very end of his fourth season in LA, at the age of 37. That would be pretty cool.
quote:
LeBron is 5th all time in made field goals. He only needs 354 baskets to pass Michael Jordan for 4th all-time (almost certain), and 843 to catch Wilt Chamberlain for 3rd (very possible). He would need 1690 to catch Malone for 2nd, so that's not happening until maybe next year. (He needs exactly 4000 buckets to pass Kareem... which would take roughly 400 games, AKA five more seasons. So he'll be playing with Bronny Jr. when that happens.)
quote:
LeBron is 19th all-time in 3-pointers made. This one is harder to predict because players will be moving up and down a lot, and LeBron's 3-point shot comes and goes. But he only needs 101 threes to pass Kobe and move into the top 15, and 104 to pass Chauncey Billups for 14th (do-able). He would need 200 to match J.R. Smith for 13th, and that's not happening. By the end of his career, though, he might be in the top 10. (And surprisingly, there's about a 50-50 chance that LeBron finishes his career with MORE 3-pointers made than Kevin Durant. At the end of this year, he'll have about 400 more than KD.)
quote:
LeBron is 62nd all time in total rebounds. He only needs 94 to move into the top 60, and 447 to pass Vlade Divac for 55th (very possible). If he balls out and gets 649 boards this year (8-9 rebounds a game), he could even pass Mel Daniels and move into the top 50. He'll never catch Wilt (no one ever will) but it goes to show how truly well-rounded he is.
quote:
LeBron is 10th all-time in assists. He needs 304 assists to pass Gary Payton for 10th (easy), 399 to pass Isiah Thomas for 10th (medium: 5-6 assists per game), and over 600 to catch the 8th place guy, Chris Paul (hard mode). At his current rate, LeBron will pass 10,000 assists sometime in his third or fourth year as a Laker, and might pass Magic Johnson (10141) in that fourth year. (Again, barring injury.)
Posted on 7/10/19 at 11:41 am to ThePTExperience1969
quote:It was in the Finals. Jordan’s had gone fishin’ By the end of the first round because he couldn’t beat the 1986 Bucks.
Where was that LeBron "killer instinct" in the Finals that year, bro?
Keep replying, and you’ll keep losing. Lebron took a team of nobodies past Bad Boys II en route to a finals, and he was the only all star on the team who took down the greatest team ever. Jordan couldn’t take a team of nobodies past the first round because he had to face the Celtics because he couldn’t muster up a better record than the Nets, Bullets, Pacers, or Bucks.
And oh yeah, I’m 1986 when 22-year-old Jordan failed to get out of the first round, the East had a 133-131 record vs the west. Man, that east sure was dominant.
When Lebron was 22, he took his team to the Finals.
What’s better, failing to get out of a first round that includes all but three of your conference’s teams, or winning a conference title?
Jordan won a single five-game series when he was his team’s only all star, and he had eight chances to do it. Lebron, as his team’s only all star, has won 10 playoff series, including two conference championships and an NBA title over the best team in league history.
Lebron James has done greater things than Michael Jordan because he is a better basketball player than Michael Jordan.
This post was edited on 7/10/19 at 11:44 am
Posted on 7/10/19 at 12:10 pm to xiv
quote:
It was in the Finals. Jordan’s had gone fishin’ By the end of the first round because he couldn’t beat the 1986 Bucks.
All I saw was MJ displaying killer instinct all 6 of his trips to the Finals and taking home 6 rings and Finals MVPs, can't say the same about Le3-6
quote:
Keep replying, and you’ll keep losing.
I never lose and MJ's dominance as a basketball player and killer instinct support that sorry not sorry
Posted on 7/10/19 at 12:25 pm to ThePTExperience1969
quote:Right. You’re selective about what you see because you’ve determined that Jordan must be the best, so you’re actually arguing that the disparity in conference strength is so great in favor of the 1986 east over the 2007 east that that’s why Jordan couldn’t get out of the first round while Lebron got to the finals.
All I saw
Lebron is better than Jordan. Every argument you’ve made is completely stupid, and you’ve been owned.
Posted on 7/10/19 at 12:28 pm to xiv
quote:
Right. You’re selective about what you see because you’ve determined that Jordan must be the best, so you’re actually arguing that the disparity in conference strength is so great in favor of the 1986 east over the 2007 east that that’s why Jordan couldn’t get out of the first round while Lebron got to the finals.
Lebron is better than Jordan. Every argument you’ve made is completely stupid, and you’ve been owned.
Remind me the time MJ choked in a playoff series again, all I know is he averaged 35-7-6 those series he lost against big-time 80s dynasties can't say the same about Bron when he played Dallas
Posted on 7/10/19 at 12:30 pm to ThePTExperience1969
Already did. You’ve lost. Lick your wounds.
Posted on 7/10/19 at 12:31 pm to xiv
quote:
Already did. You’ve lost.
No I didn't, 35-7-6 doesn't qualify as choking by any objective measure
Posted on 7/10/19 at 12:32 pm to ThePTExperience1969
quote:
Sorry was too busy watching MJ average 41 ppg on 51% FG to single-handedly carry the Bulls to their 3peat over the Suns as well as the Flu Game on the road in Utah to read ?
I was responding to a post where you said:
quote:
Look, i'm sure you're weirdly pleased that you're placing overwhelming weight on a random season to season comparison, ignoring the context of it all, and incorrectly claiming victory while ignoring the full body of work
That's why LeBron's better overall clutch stats tend to be fairer than cherry picking Jordan's best/worst or LeBron's best/worst.
Posted on 7/10/19 at 12:33 pm to ThePTExperience1969
And Lebron had a triple double when he “choked” against Orlando.
What’s better, a single double in the first round or a triple double in the second?
You can’t win this. You don’t have the numbers. Only feelings.
What’s better, a single double in the first round or a triple double in the second?
You can’t win this. You don’t have the numbers. Only feelings.
Posted on 7/10/19 at 12:35 pm to Rep520
quote:
That's why LeBron's better overall clutch stats tend to be fairer than cherry picking Jordan's best/worst or LeBron's best/worst.
Despite that Ray Allen and Kyrie Irving saved LeBron's legacy in two Finals
Posted on 7/10/19 at 12:37 pm to xiv
quote:
And Lebron had a triple double when he “choked” against Orlando.
Didn't LeBron's team win 66 games that season and possess HC advantage and the no. 1 seed the entire time?
Posted on 7/10/19 at 12:52 pm to ThePTExperience1969
quote:Take away Irving’s 3, and Cleveland still wins by Lebron’s free throw. Take away Allen’s 3, and game 6 goes to overtime in Miami.
Despite that Ray Allen and Kyrie Irving saved LeBron's legacy in two Finals
You lose again.
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