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buckeye_vol
Ohio State Fan
Member since Jul 2014
31754 posts
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re: In depth debate on who the GOAT is. Lebron? MJ?
quote:

On a stacked superteam
They weren’t stacked in that first season beyond the Big 3. 2 of their main role players (Miller and Haslem) were injured for much of the year, and they were forced to give a bunch of old players considerable playing time in the last year of the careers (Z, House, Arroyo). In that finals, Joel Anthony, Mike Bibby, Juwan Howard, and Eddie House all played. Not to mention, it took Spona year to figure out how to play them altogether to maximize their talents. The whole was not greater than the sum of the parts that season.


buckeye_vol
Ohio State Fan
Member since Jul 2014
31754 posts
 Online 

re: In depth debate on who the GOAT is. Lebron? MJ?
quote:

and last year's Finals game 1 OT when he shut down and didn't score a point
Let’s just ignore that Lebron in the 11 minutes he played in fourth quarter, Lebron scored 13 points on 6/7 from the field (85.7%) and 1/1 from the line (87.4% TS%), had 3 rebounds, had 3 assists that contributed to 8 more points, and set up George Hill for the game-tying (which he made) and the potential game winning (which he missed) free throws after being down by 6.

And we’ll just ignored he went for 51/8/8, on 19/32 (59.4%) from the floor, 4/9 from 3 (42.9%), and 10/11 (90.9%) from the line with a 64.1% EFG% and a 69.2% TS% in 47.5 minutes—8.5 more minutes than any other Cavs. And that was against a team that was one of the best of all time, FAR BETTER than the Cavs, and on the road.
This post was edited on 7/10 at 10:00 pm


Rep520
Arizona Fan
Member since Mar 2018
5242 posts
 Online 

re: In depth debate on who the GOAT is. Lebron? MJ?
quote:

I think a lot of this has to do with the lack of the internet and social media which has allowed us to be able to know so many details of one’s behaviors, thoughts, etc. which limits the asymmetry of information about players that teams/players/brands were able to control.


Bingo. Read the Jordan Rules. That book was controversial, and MJ criticized it. Imagine some of the incidents in the book were on social media today.

Or if people were posting cellphone videos of MJ from 3 am in Atlantic City the morning of a playoff game vs the Knicks. MJ would not have the aura he does if he played in the social media era.


ThePTExperience1969
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Apr 2016
9507 posts

re: In depth debate on who the GOAT is. Lebron? MJ?
quote:

Lebron: Finals


Played in the LEastern Conference, almost a no-show in the Finals

quote:

Jordan: no playoffs


NBA All-Star, All-NBA 2nd Team (AS A ROOKIE), NBA ROY, IIRC 2nd in the league in scoring, and DID lead them to the playoffs and averaged 29-8-6 in that series not to mention he played in the BEastern Conference


buckeye_vol
Ohio State Fan
Member since Jul 2014
31754 posts
 Online 

re: In depth debate on who the GOAT is. Lebron? MJ?
quote:

DID lead them to the playoffs
I mean they had a losing record in each of his first 3 seasons (38-44, 30-52, and 40-42) and still made the playoffs. The Cavs had a winning record in Lebron’s second season (42-40) and still didn’t make the playoffs. Lebron’s first 3 seasons the Cavs won a combined 127 games, with 2 winning seasons, and only made the playoffs once. Whereas in Jordan’s first 3 seasons, the Bulls only won a combined 108 games, didn’t have a single winning record and made the playoffs all 3 seasons, even with MJ missing most of the 30 win season.
This post was edited on 7/11 at 12:14 am


ThePTExperience1969
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Apr 2016
9507 posts

re: In depth debate on who the GOAT is. Lebron? MJ?
quote:

Or if people were posting cellphone videos of MJ from 3 am in Atlantic City the morning of a playoff game vs the Knicks. MJ would not have the aura he does if he played in the social media era.


Good thing for MJ they won that series (he scored 54 in a crucial game 4 to tie the series up) then proceeded to secure the threepeat against Phoenix with Jordan submitting maybe the greatest performance of all-time averaging 41 ppg on 51% FG


Bow to Auburn
Auburn Fan
Member since Aug 2010
1649 posts

re: In depth debate on who the GOAT is. Lebron? MJ?
Wait MJ only made 6 finals in 14 seasons?!?

What happened in the other 8 years?


Salamander_Wilson
Member since Jul 2015
4041 posts
 Online 

re: In depth debate on who the GOAT is. Lebron? MJ?
Jordan vs Satan

or

LeBron vs Satan

Game of 21 for your soul.

Who are you taking?


Salamander_Wilson
Member since Jul 2015
4041 posts
 Online 

re: In depth debate on who the GOAT is. Lebron? MJ?
quote:

Jordan just didn’t have a killer instinct like Lebron. He wanted to score a lot of points and wasn’t focused on winning.


This is one of the most asinine statements I’ve ever read.

xiv, you’re under 25 years old, correct?


Rep520
Arizona Fan
Member since Mar 2018
5242 posts
 Online 

re: In depth debate on who the GOAT is. Lebron? MJ?
quote:

Jordan vs Satan 

or 

LeBron vs Satan 

Game of 21 for your soul. 

Who are you taking?


Honestly, I'd be tempted to go with laying my soul on Satan. He's fairly powerful, but I've never seen him ball.


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ThePTExperience1969
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Apr 2016
9507 posts

re: In depth debate on who the GOAT is. Lebron? MJ?
quote:

They were down by 12 with 10 seconds left in the third, then Lebron scored 15 points and assisted on 6 more until his first turnover in the 4th (offensive file with 3:18 remaining) as they were down by 3. And while he has 2 more turnovers in the last couple minutes, he made a crucial 3 with 20 seconds remaining to get it back within 1 possession.


Like I said, basically derailed the comeback if not for exceptionally clutch plays in the final 20 seconds of regulation

quote:

So in the last 12 minutes and 10 seconds of regulation, LeBron scored 18 points, shooting 63.6% from the field (68.2% EFG%), 75% from the line, with a TS% of 70.5%, had 2 assists that contributed to 6 more points, accounting for 75% of the 32 points scored, plus a couple rebounds, and the team overcame a 12 point deficit.


Wouldn't argue "overcame" they still trailed through it all until Ray Allen

quote:

And while he has 3 turnovers, that doesn’t negate the rest of that at all.


Doesn't negate it but takes the shine off it for sure


xiv
LSU Fan
#FreeVOR
Member since Feb 2004
35340 posts

re: In depth debate on who the GOAT is. Lebron? MJ?
quote:

This is one of the most asinine statements I’ve ever read.
It’s heavily documented that he didn’t get along well with any of his first three coaches and focused more on scoring points than winning. If he was focused on winning, yikes. The Bulls were only able to go 410-410 in Jordan’s pre-Phil seasons. But hey, he got his points though.
quote:

xiv, you’re under 25 years old, correct?
It’s mentioned somewhere on the site how old I am. If you’re interested enough, you’ll find it.


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xiv
LSU Fan
#FreeVOR
Member since Feb 2004
35340 posts

re: In depth debate on who the GOAT is. Lebron? MJ?
quote:

Played in the LEastern Conference, almost a no-show in the Finals
Getting to the Finals is better than losing in the first round. You’re trying so hard to make this true, and you won’t do it. The 11-team eastern conference of the 80’s was not so much more navigable than the 15-team conference of 12 years ago that getting swept in the former first round is better than getting swept in the latter finals.

You’re embarrassing yourself.


xiv
LSU Fan
#FreeVOR
Member since Feb 2004
35340 posts

re: In depth debate on who the GOAT is. Lebron? MJ?
quote:

takes the shine off it for sure
Nah, Lebron was the Finals MVP in a series where his team defeated an opponent better than any Jordan ever faced. This takes the shine off Jordan.


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ReauxlTide222
Alabama Fan
St. Petersburg
Member since Nov 2010
59315 posts

re: In depth debate on who the GOAT is. Lebron? MJ?
It pains PTE that that was better than any MJ finals performance


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ReauxlTide222
Alabama Fan
St. Petersburg
Member since Nov 2010
59315 posts

re: In depth debate on who the GOAT is. Lebron? MJ?
quote:

I mean they had a losing record in each of his first 3 seasons (38-44, 30-52, and 40-42) and still made the playoffs.
Jesus Christ

I swear a good 60% of MJ’s lore is fake news.


Boomshockalocka
Houston Fan
Clutch City
Member since Feb 2004
49183 posts
 Online 

re: In depth debate on who the GOAT is. Lebron? MJ?
You got to consider how stacked the east was then compared to for lebron. And no you can’t look at win loss record there is more to it then that. You gotta know your nba.


ThePTExperience1969
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Apr 2016
9507 posts

re: In depth debate on who the GOAT is. Lebron? MJ?
Preach Boom Preach my entire point all along


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ReauxlTide222
Alabama Fan
St. Petersburg
Member since Nov 2010
59315 posts

re: In depth debate on who the GOAT is. Lebron? MJ?
quote:

You’re embarrassing yourself.
A few months ago he was arguing this passionately(and densely) that Lebron was tGOAT.

The guy is truly a clown.


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02
xiv
LSU Fan
#FreeVOR
Member since Feb 2004
35340 posts

re: In depth debate on who the GOAT is. Lebron? MJ?
quote:

You got to consider how stacked the east was then compared to for lebron.
You also got to consider that a lower percentage of teams make the playoffs now since the number of eastern teams has increased from 11 to 15, both from which eight teams qualified. Also, basketball players are way better today than they were 30 years ago.

It’s a wash, if we’re to be generous to Jordan. Winning the east 12 years ago wasn’t any easier than it was 30 years ago.

Furthermore, if you count the NBA Finals, the east had a 135-135 record vs the west in 1986, so just how stacked was it?
This post was edited on 7/11 at 10:48 am


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