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Message
re: Hornets Trade Proposal
Posted on 4/3/10 at 10:21 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 4/3/10 at 10:21 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
critical mass
are you saying his contract will be based upon being chris paul and not on his actual production?
1
Posted on 4/3/10 at 10:23 am to Fun Bunch
YOu have to think of it as a 2 year plan. They need to build the team around CP for 2 years.
How?
Get a good GM.
Get a good coach.
Make good decisions in the draft.
Make smart trades.
Don't give dumb contracts.
If after year 2, barring a lockout, the hornets are on the right tract, cp will re-sign because no one can offer as much money.
How?
Get a good GM.
Get a good coach.
Make good decisions in the draft.
Make smart trades.
Don't give dumb contracts.
If after year 2, barring a lockout, the hornets are on the right tract, cp will re-sign because no one can offer as much money.
Posted on 4/3/10 at 10:24 am to DollaChoppa
i am saying if we suck for 2 years i don't see paul wanting to stick it out
i think the only thing that would make him want to exercise his player option would be the new CBA limiting salaries
i think the only thing that would make him want to exercise his player option would be the new CBA limiting salaries
Posted on 4/3/10 at 10:26 am to tubucoco
quote:
a lot of people overrate Collison's value
First, I think you're undervaluing Collison. He's averaged 19/9 as a starter since the all star break and has been averaging 17 ppg since going back to the bench. Is he best in the league? Not even close, but he probably could end up in the top 15-20 and is on a VERY favorable rookie contract.
Second, value is all about supply and demand. It's already been reported that multiple teams plan to contact the Hornets about him and the draft is pretty thin on PG talent, so demand looks greater than supply at this point. If you want a good point guard that can also score, where else are you going to find one for the low, low price of a starting 3 or 5 plus taking back a bad contract?
Regarding the OP the only trade scenarios I've seen so far that I approve of are:
DC + Posey or Okafor for mid lotto pick
or
DC + Okafor + JuJu for Bynum + Vujacic
I might be ok with the Peja + pick for Iggy, but I get the impression he's overpaid, I just don't know by how much. If he's a $10 guy getting $12 I'm ok, if he's a $6 guy getting $12 I don't want it.
Posted on 4/3/10 at 10:26 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i am saying if we suck for 2 years i don't see paul wanting to stick it out
Yea, its a high risk high reward plan though I think. I prefer it however because I find it hard to imagine a scenario where the hornets can become a championship team. I mean, I guess being a respectable playoff team every year is ok, but no one really cares about the teams that dont win the ship.
Posted on 4/3/10 at 10:28 am to SlowFlowPro
dude you are blowin Collison's horn much too hard, yes, the production is there thanks to CP3's injury, but CP3 knows what to do with the ball when penetrating inside, he has a great floater he has developed, and he rarely throws it away like Collison does when he goes inside.
and, yes, CP3 had a average jump shot when he first came into the league, but he worked on it until he now has one of the better shots on the team, Collison still has a lot of work to do, why is that so damn hard to see?
and, yes, CP3 had a average jump shot when he first came into the league, but he worked on it until he now has one of the better shots on the team, Collison still has a lot of work to do, why is that so damn hard to see?
Posted on 4/3/10 at 10:28 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
How?
Get a good GM.
Get a good coach.
Make good decisions in the draft.
Make smart trades.
Don't give dumb contracts.
glad to know you have no answer for "how"
here are the facts
we have major trade pieces RIGHT NOW for next year. peja and mopete's salaries are expiring deals. we can trade them for a guy with a bad contract that another team wants to dump. the problem is our ownership is loathe to do this
we have no flexibility in FA until west's contract is up. the problem is if we let west walk, will we really be able to improve the team after losing him? it's possible, but unlikely
we do have a lotto pick this year, but we'll have to get really lucky again (either by landing in the top 3 or getting lucky with picks like this past year. our FO isn't that good at drafting, but they got lucky as hell this past draft). if we draft at 11-12 we likely miss an impact player
and we have DC to dangle. we'll have to add in a salary to match up what we'd get back, so we may be able to dump posey's deal in the process. the problem is that if we deal DC, we lose our backcourt depth. we'd have to get an impact wing/big AND a solid backcourt contributor
so basically, unless the hornets get REAL lucky, they're in all likelihood fricked. if our front office/ownership doesn't want to assume another bad long term contract, our team will be stuck in a solid financial position, but weak roster-wise
Posted on 4/3/10 at 10:29 am to SlowFlowPro
all depends on where the team is after the 2 years.
If Bower is gm, avery is the coach, and the team is mediocre, no he won't be back.
But if they are bold, make good decisions, and are on the upswing, he will be back.
The new cba will decide a lot. The things they are proposing would help the hornets a lot.
If Bower is gm, avery is the coach, and the team is mediocre, no he won't be back.
But if they are bold, make good decisions, and are on the upswing, he will be back.
The new cba will decide a lot. The things they are proposing would help the hornets a lot.
Posted on 4/3/10 at 10:30 am to tubucoco
quote:
Collison still has a lot of work to do
if DC has "a lot" of work to do, then you're projecting him to be another cp3
having 2 CP3s on the team is a big redundancy
Posted on 4/3/10 at 10:32 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
The things they are proposing would help the hornets a lot.
unless they increase the hell out of the cap, then it doesn't help the hornets at all
if the new CBA has a hard cap around $70M, then the hornets may be able to make moves (if they can convince FAs to come to small market nola, which is a big task. the hornets have failed to do this in their entire history. we always have to overpay...see peja, posey, mopete, etc)
if the new CBA has a hard cap similar to the current one, the hornets are frickED
Posted on 4/3/10 at 10:33 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i am saying if we suck for 2 years i don't see paul wanting to stick it out
Doesn't matter what he wants. By the time his player option rolls around the new CBA will be in place. All the major markets that are over the cap now will be in the middle of their cap purgatory/amnesty deals and won't be able to get Paul. At the very least the overstacked teams that he's likely to want to go to would have to trade for him. If Stern has his way with the new CBA I think it's unlikely we lose Paul at all, but if we do I don't think he'll be able to just walk away for nothing.
Posted on 4/3/10 at 10:36 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
if the new CBA has a hard cap similar to the current one, the hornets are frickED
Maybe short term, but if they are aiming to copy the NFL, and all the initial indicator are that they are, that actually helps small market teams like the Hornets. Cap forces profitability of all teams and limits the ability to stack your roster so everyone has an equal chance to be competitive.
Posted on 4/3/10 at 10:36 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:and you still don't get it, he makes a great backup for CP3 who used to log so much minutes it reduced his effectiveness late in crucial games, so I guess you wanna go back to that?
having two CP3s on the team is a big redundacy
but once he does develop into another CP3 think about how much his trade value will be then ?
This post was edited on 4/3/10 at 10:38 am
Posted on 4/3/10 at 10:39 am to TigerinATL
quote:
that actually helps small market teams like the Hornets.
maybe 5 years after the new CBA when things get sorted out
quote:
Cap forces profitability of all teams and limits the ability to stack your roster so everyone has an equal chance to be competitive.
all the teams who stack their payroll made smart moves to do it. 3 of the big ones are orlando, cleveland, and san antonio...hardly big markets
Posted on 4/3/10 at 10:40 am to tubucoco
quote:
but once he does develop into another CP3 think about how much his trade value will be then ?
So when? In 2 years when he's 2 years closer to signing a big money deal and the draft may not be as thin at PG? You are acting like player ability = player value but player ability is only one part of the equation. This year you have low supply plus 4 more years of DC on the cheap.
Posted on 4/3/10 at 10:41 am to tubucoco
quote:
he makes a great backup for CP3
he is far too valuable to be a backup
quote:
so I guess you wanna go back to that?
there are other options other than having a potential all star backing up your starter
if DC's sample is any indication of his value, he is an all-star caliber player RIGHT NOW
a backcourt of cp3/dc/thornton won't win shite without a front line like the lakers
quote:
but once he does develop into another CP3 think about how much his trade value will be then ?
he'll be on the bench and his value will keep going down unless he gets showcased more
the only way that happens is if cp3 gets hurt again
Posted on 4/3/10 at 10:43 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
he is far too valuable to be a backup
Why on earth would you want to improve the team by dumping crippling contracts and picking up a starter in exchange for a backup? You are insane
Posted on 4/3/10 at 10:49 am to SlowFlowPro
SFP, Collison is not all star caliber right now, that is a ridiculous statement, but I should know better then to debate with you, plus I'm having computer issues. So I give up!
and you completely missed what I said about him developing into another CP3.
and you completely missed what I said about him developing into another CP3.
This post was edited on 4/3/10 at 11:03 am
Posted on 4/3/10 at 10:53 am to tubucoco
quote:
SFP, Collison is not all star caliber right now, that is a ridiculous statement,
cp3
d-will
nash
#1, 2, and 3 clearly
then who else is clearly a better point guard? who else matches 19/9?
the candidate are:
rondo (can't shoot)
westbrook (TO problems + shooting problems)
evans (likely better)
kidd (only offense is shooting wide open 3s)
rose (took a big step back this year)
take away name recognition...which of those guys would you clearly take over DC right now?
Posted on 4/3/10 at 11:50 am to McTeague
To the OP... Bargnani is a soft VAG
I would rather see a deal which gets us Danny Granger ... I doubt Indy would give up easily though
I would rather see a deal which gets us Danny Granger ... I doubt Indy would give up easily though
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