Absolutely tracks have a gotten better along with the equipment, but I don't recall an Olympics where 9 of 10 races, men's and women's, were setting WR's and I certainly don't recall a relay where 5 of the teams broke the old record.

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Posted by Baloo

Formerly MDGeaux

Member since Sep 2003

49645 posts

Posted on 8/13/08 at 4:37 pm to H-Town Tiger

I think it was Atlanta 1996 when every weightlifting class broke the world record. These things aren't unheard of in the Olympics.

I certianly don't think it invalidates Phelps' winning as he's racing in the same conditions as everyone else.

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Posted by blueboy

Member since Apr 2006

63411 posts

Posted on 8/13/08 at 4:42 pm to Dallas Tiger

quote:
You do like the distance runners, don’t you?

I do think its tougher to win a 5000/ 10000 double or an 800/ 1500 (I should have included Peter Snell) than to win 4 or 5 golds in swimming. What Phelps is doing is incredible but there is a reason the people with the most golds in one Olympics are swimmers.

You're definitely my kind of guy. And it is MUCH harder, imo, for a distance runner to get multiple medals like Zatopek and Nurmi. I don't include Verun because he benefited from the 72 Israeli crisis, which significantly delayed his later events.

I also include guys like Moses and Lewis because they dominated for so long. See if Phelps can win his best event 121 straight times on the world's biggest stages, and we'll talk. I leave out Al Oerter because he had a bit of luck along the way, but still possibly deserving.

Whoever mentioned Alexander Karelin has a pretty good argument too. Just one event, yes, but few athletes dominated ANY event like him.

I exclude Jackie and any other of Bobby Kersee's athletes for what should be obvious reasons.

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Posted by H-Town Tiger

Member since Nov 2003

60871 posts

Posted on 8/13/08 at 4:46 pm to Baloo

It doesn't invalidate it at all, I just think it worth mentioning if we are going to use his breaking of ever WR as an argument for his being the greatest Olympian ever.

I really wish we could just appreicate what he is doing in this Olympics as the best performance in Beijing and worry about whether he's the swimming or Olympic GOAT later, with a little more perspective.

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Posted by Baloo

Formerly MDGeaux

Member since Sep 2003

49645 posts

Posted on 8/13/08 at 4:57 pm to H-Town Tiger

I agree with you on that, but I think it is one of those things that’s inevitably going to get talked about. And I think it’s a fun discussion so long as we’re using it as an excuse to honor previous Olympians. I think this is a chance to remember previous greats, not just celebrate Phelps’ current accomplishments.

I think Phelps is certainly legitimately in the conversation for Greatest Ever given that he’s had two straight great Olympics. But if Phelps’ current greatness us used as a way to spotlight previous greats, I think it’s pretty cool. I don’t find the “he’s not that great” argument very convincing considering the sheer extent of his dominance over his sport, but I do find the “this guy was greater because...” argument convincing. No need to tear down one guy to build up the other.

I’m still a Carl Lewis guy. Winning a gold in four straight Olympiads is just a phenomenal feat, especially in young man’s sport like track and field. But I do believe in my criteria for greatness: multiple golds in multiple Olympics.

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Posted by Dallas Tiger

Dallas

Member since Mar 2006

15080 posts

Posted on 8/13/08 at 6:33 pm to Baloo

quote:
While there are some swimmers near the top of all-time medal winners (Biandi and Thompson in addition to Spitz and Phelps), swimmers don’t overwhelmingly dominate the list.

3 swimmers in the top 5 for # of medals in a single Summer games. Then Gymnastics, which is another sport where you can rack-up a lot of medals because there are so many events per games.

The winter Olympics are a different animal. Many nations and regions are almost excluded because they do not have enough snow or ice. So the number of people worldwide participating in say, cross country or downhill skiing is relatively low. This is why I think Track is the toughest sport of all. More people can and do participate in track worldwide. To get a gold in track you are truly a world champion.

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