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re: Can we kill the SEC speed myth?
Posted on 1/2/10 at 3:06 pm to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 1/2/10 at 3:06 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
the problem with OSU is your offensive talent (esp at the skill positions) has deteriorated big time since 2005
I think alot of it is QB play and play calling. Our recievers all seem to go pro and do well. We had Wells, no doubt an excellent back. I dont know why we dont use a tight end that much. Maybe Pryor will come aroung next year.
0
Posted on 1/2/10 at 3:16 pm to VABuckeye
quote:
Antoine Winfield, Donte Whitner, Chris Gamble, Nate Clements and Shawn Springs all disagree with you.
what school did they play for? What aren't you getting here?
Stop cherry picking the best of the best too.
Posted on 1/2/10 at 3:19 pm to Parliament
I wish Ironheads son would have come to LSU
Posted on 1/2/10 at 3:22 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
yes it was. Outside of Gholston, Jenkins and the little Animal, who on OSU could have started on D for LSU? Our OL >> OSU, LSU had more depth at WR and RB.
So the talent gap was so large that the level of coaching didn't matter? Was Boise more talented than OU a few years back?
But just for the sake of arguing, the 2008 and 2009 NFL drafts look pretty even to me.
2008 draft
OSU
2008 1 6 6 Vernon Gholston Jets DE
7 7 214 Larry Grant 49ers LB
7 40 247 Kirk Barton Bears T
LSU 2008
1 5 Glenn Dorsey DT Kansas City Chiefs
3 68 Chevis Jackson CB Atlanta Falcons
3 69 Jacob Hester FB San Diego Chargers
3 81 Early Doucet WR Arizona Cardinals
4 120 Craig Steltz DB Chicago Bears
7 209 Matt Flynn QB Green Bay Packers
OSU 2009
Wells, Chris RB 6'1" 235 Ohio State Pick 31, Round 1 (31) Cardinals
Jenkins, Malcolm CB 6'0" 204 Ohio State Pick 14, Round 1 (14) Saints
Laurinaitis, James ILB 6'2" 244 Ohio State Pick 3, Round 2 (35) Rams
Freeman, Marcus LB 6'0" 239 Ohio State Pick 18, Round 5 (154) Bears
Robiskie, Brian WR 6'3" 209 Ohio State Pick 4, Round 2 (36) Browns
Washington, Donald CB 6'0" 197 Ohio State Pick 2, Round 4 (102) Chiefs
Hartline, Brian WR 6'2" 195 Ohio State Pick 8, Round 4 (108) Dolphins
LSU 2009
Tyson Jackson Defensive End 1 3 3 Kansas City Chiefs
Quinn Johnson Running Back 5 9 145 Green Bay Packers
Herman Johnson Offensive Guard 5 31 167 Arizona Cardinals
Curtis Taylor Safety 7 10 219 San Francisco 49ers
Demetrius Byrd Wide Receiver 7 15 224 San Diego Chargers
Ricky Jean-Francois Defensive Tackle 7 35 244 San Francisco 49ers
Talent-moderate advantage LSU
Coaching-big advantage OSU
The bottom line is Parilment shouldn't be talking shite especially when his team was beat by the coach he is making fun of no matter the enormity of the talent gap.
FIXED
This post was edited on 1/2/10 at 3:46 pm
Posted on 1/2/10 at 3:37 pm to nhsj012
quote:
So the talent gap was so large that the level of coaching didn't matter
sort of, the coaching gap is not an absolute, but sweater boy is no doubt a better overall HC than Miles. The problem with Miles is not that he can't coach at all, its that he can't sustain or get a team to elite levels. He took over a team with elite talent, the further into his tenure we the further we get from that elite status. Coker won shite loads of games when he had sick talent. Miles can win games, he just can't do it consistently over teams with equal or better talent.
Also we still had Bo P in 07, not sure about OSU assistants but coaching edge is more than just the HC.
quote:
But just for the sake of arguing, the 2008 and 2009 NFL drafts look pretty even to me.
you 08 OSU list has guys from other Ohio teams. only 3 from OSU. OSU had talent, buy not as much as LSU.
This post was edited on 1/2/10 at 3:40 pm
Posted on 1/2/10 at 3:39 pm to nhsj012
quote:
But just for the sake of arguing, the 2008 and 2009 NFL drafts look pretty even to me.
you think the 2008 draft was even?
Posted on 1/2/10 at 3:42 pm to PortCityTiger24
No but compare the top flight talent LSU had in 2008 to OSU in 2009 and it is a wash.
OSU 2009
Wells, Chris RB 6'1" 235 Ohio State Pick 31, Round 1 (31) Cardinals
Jenkins, Malcolm CB 6'0" 204 Ohio State Pick 14, Round 1 (14) Saints
Laurinaitis, James ILB 6'2" 244 Ohio State Pick 3, Round 2 (35) Rams
Robiskie, Brian WR 6'3" 209 Ohio State Pick 4, Round 2 (36) Browns
LSU 2008
1 5 Glenn Dorsey DT Kansas City Chiefs
3 68 Chevis Jackson CB Atlanta Falcons
3 69 Jacob Hester FB San Diego Chargers
3 81 Early Doucet WR Arizona Cardinals
This post was edited on 1/2/10 at 3:44 pm
Posted on 1/2/10 at 3:45 pm to nhsj012
How are you going to do this? You are now saying that there is no difference in experience of college players.
Seniors for LSU against juniors for OSU is a huge difference
Seniors for LSU against juniors for OSU is a huge difference
Posted on 1/2/10 at 3:48 pm to Buckeye06
quote:
How are you going to do this? You are now saying that there is no difference in experience of college players.
Seniors for LSU against juniors for OSU is a huge difference
Jesus people, yall are completely diverting from my OP. Parliment was making fun of Miles but his team WAS BEAT BY MILES. Now I'm trying to prove that the talent gap was NOT that substantial to say coaching didn't matter. Stop perverting my argument. The talent was not different enough to say coaching didn't matter. Lower talent teams beat more talented teams all the time DUE TO COACHING.
This post was edited on 1/2/10 at 3:49 pm
Posted on 1/2/10 at 3:50 pm to nhsj012
I respect your argument but disagree with your analysis.
Posted on 1/2/10 at 3:50 pm to PortCityTiger24
perecentage of OSU NFL players that are obvious juicers? 50%+ i'd say
Posted on 1/2/10 at 3:51 pm to nhsj012
quote:
No but compare the top flight talent LSU had in 2008 to OSU in 2009 and it is a wash.
that's not really a good way to compare it. Depth and position by position are more relevant.
Wells was the best RB on either team, but LSU had more depth.
Jenkins, Gholston and the Little Animal would start for LSU. Of the other 8 players on D, who from Ohio State would start for LSU?
Robiske was drafted higher than Doucet, but LaFell may go higher.
The biggest gap though is arguably the most important position. Flynn was a pretty good college QB. Boeckman was horrible.
Posted on 1/2/10 at 3:52 pm to nhsj012
quote:
Jesus people, yall are completely diverting from my OP. Parliment was making fun of Miles but his team WAS BEAT BY MILES. Now I'm trying to prove that the talent gap was NOT that substantial to say coaching didn't matter. Stop perverting my argument. The talent was not different enough to say coaching didn't matter. Lower talent teams beat more talented teams all the time DUE TO COACHING.
I agree with this. I think Miles is really a poor game coach overall but LSU had the game plan that day to win. In contrast I like Tressel but I thought that was one of the worst games he ever coached. I have no idea why we gave up the run with Beanie in the second half. LSU just played great football that day!
Overall though I'll take "The Vest" over "The Hat"
Posted on 1/2/10 at 3:53 pm to H-Town Tiger
Freeman could start for LSU and if you're going by who ultimately was good in college I believe Coleman was the starting S for that team and he is comparable to Steltz maybe even better.
But at that point in experience Steltz>Coleman
But at that point in experience Steltz>Coleman
Posted on 1/2/10 at 3:55 pm to bomber77
quote:
Overall though I'll take "The Vest" over "The Hat"
I WILL agree with this!!!
Posted on 1/2/10 at 3:55 pm to Buckeye06
quote:
I respect your argument but disagree with your analysis.
Yeah, the draft comparison wasn't the best of choices but I was bored.
Everyone is acting like OSU's talent was on the level of ULL and LSU's talent was on the level of the Patriots so coaching in 2007 didn't matter. We have seen teams with less talent beat LSU over the last few years DUE TO COACHING.
This post was edited on 1/2/10 at 3:57 pm
Posted on 1/2/10 at 3:58 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
The biggest gap though is arguably the most important position. Flynn was a pretty good college QB. Boeckman was horrible.
BUT AGAIN Flynn was able to use BETTER AND FASTER players to execute that game plan. LOOK I don't think LSU was that good in 2007 compared to 2006. BUT YOU CANNOT look at the 2007 game and NOT realize that LSU was a better team, AND speed was a big part of it.
Posted on 1/2/10 at 4:03 pm to dukke v
quote:
BUT AGAIN Flynn was able to use BETTER AND FASTER players to execute that game plan.
name these speed demons I'm overlooking aside from Holiday, LSU was not especially fast on offense. Hester, Scott, Doucet, LaFell?
Posted on 1/2/10 at 4:08 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
name these speed demons I'm overlooking aside from Holiday, LSU was not especially fast on offense. Hester, Scott, Doucet, LaFell?
I like how you ONLY said offensive players. LSU'S D In that game was faster off the ball and it showed. Look at the tape if you must. Come on H-Town.
Posted on 1/2/10 at 4:12 pm to dukke v
SEC head to head vs the Big 10 over the last 10 years has the SEC up by one bowl win (16-15 or 15-14 including this year.) If the Big 10 is the biggest, slowest conference and the SEC is the fastest it sure hasn't meant anything in the wins and losses.
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