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re: Better NBA Duo - Lebron and Wade or Jordan and Pippen?
Posted on 5/31/12 at 1:19 pm to TigerMan327
Posted on 5/31/12 at 1:19 pm to TigerMan327
quote:
So he moved on. If he wins a title with Wade and Bosh its just as tainted as The celtics or the lakers.. People need to stop hating on everything the dude does. It's so annoying.
My point. I heard somebody say something the other day about how he took the "easier route," to a championship, like that even matters.
0
Posted on 5/31/12 at 1:54 pm to JJ27
quote:
You should look it up.
It's hard to because Jordan and Pippen didn't play together until 87-88. At that point Pippen was a rookie and Jordan had 3 years experience under his belt. Obviously, Bron and Wade have a ton more experience than that but are only in their second year playing together.
So, I'm going to use the 95-96 season for the Bulls, and the 2012 season for the Heat. The numbers are very similar (all numbers are obviously combined)
PPG: 49.8 to 49.2 - Slight edge to Jordan/Pippen
REB: 13.1 to 12.7 - Slight edge to Jordan/Pippen
AST: 10.4 to 10.2 - Slight edge to Bron/Wade
STL: 3.9 to 3.6 - Slight edge to Jordan/Pippen
BLK: 2.1 to 1.2 - Slight edge to Bron/Wade
TO: 5.1 to 6 - Slight edge to Jordan/Pippen
Posted on 5/31/12 at 1:56 pm to Starchild
quote:
Here's a novel idea...why don't we wait until the current duo has run its course before comparing them to one of the GOAT.
For all we know, Lebron and D-Wade could win the next 8 NBA titles in a row...then what?
As it stands, we have 2 of the game's top 5 playing together, let's wait and see how it continues.
1. This team is not going to win the next 8 titles. At most, they'll win 2. Wade is 30 and already has health problems. His game is predicated on his athleticism and driving to the hoop because he is largely useless from the field from more than 10-12 feet out. He's going to be in for a rude awakening when he hits 32-33 and doesn't have the athletic advantages he has right now and if he loses all of the bullshite whistles he gets, he's going to drop off hard.
2. LeBron is definitely a top 5 guy (I have him at 2 behind Durant), but Wade is not a top 5 player and really isn't the best SG in the league.
Posted on 5/31/12 at 2:00 pm to Swanson's Mustache
LeBron will still have plenty of good ball left in the tank once his Miami contract comes to an end. Don't be surprised if he wins a couple in Miami then a couple more elsewhere
Posted on 5/31/12 at 2:07 pm to Swanson's Mustache
quote:Whoa
LeBron is definitely a top 5 guy (I have him at 2 behind Durant), but Wade is not a top 5 player and really isn't the best SG in the league.
Posted on 5/31/12 at 2:08 pm to baybeefeetz
MJ>Lebron
Wade>Pippen on an all time best scale
It's closer than people think, though MJ/Scottie have the advantage. Wade/Bron haven't been together long enough for a real comparison. MJ and Scottie will also always have the advantage of coming together wayyyyy early than 26 and 29 or whatever age it was that Bron/Wade got together.
Wade>Pippen on an all time best scale
It's closer than people think, though MJ/Scottie have the advantage. Wade/Bron haven't been together long enough for a real comparison. MJ and Scottie will also always have the advantage of coming together wayyyyy early than 26 and 29 or whatever age it was that Bron/Wade got together.
Posted on 5/31/12 at 2:10 pm to LSUalldaway18
wade n lebron duhhhhh
Posted on 5/31/12 at 2:19 pm to TigerMan327
quote:
Every superstar who had a championship had help. Lebron didn't have help in cleveland, and they never brought him help.
This argument is so outdated and so untrue it's not even funny. He had some talented supporting casts around him. They had outside shooters and they had good post/paint scorers and some nasty paint/post defenders too. Their perimeter defense was average most of the time, but to say he had no help, is just a plain lie. Besides, it's not like the East was full of stud arse teams and players when he was there. At the very least they should have made the ECF from his third season on because outside of the Celtics Big 3, none of ts team were all that great.
quote:
If he wins a title with Wade and Bosh its just as tainted as The celtics or the lakers (it wont be).
Not even comparable. Jordan and Pippen were drafted by the Bulls. They didn't sign these guys as free agents in their prime. Same with The Celtics. Bird and McHale were drafted by the team. Parish was traded to the team when Bird was coming ff his rookie year and McHale hadn't even been drafted yet. Even their supporting cast in Ainge, Henderson and Maxwell were drafted by the team. So 5 of their top 6 players were drafted by the team. Again not comparable at all. The Showtime Lakers. Magic was drafted by LA. Worthy was drafted by LA. Kareem wasn't drafted by them, but he was traded there 4 years before they even drafted Magic. Other important players during their run in the 80s: Michael Cooper (drafted by LA), Wilkes (signed as a free agent before Magic was drafted), Norm Nixon (drafted by LA), Byron Scott (essentially drafted by LA), and AC Green (Drafted by LA). Again not comparable.
What next you going to say the Spurs did the same thing?
Posted on 5/31/12 at 2:23 pm to shel311
quote:
Wade>Pippen on an all time best scale
Lol no. Pippen was literally better at every facet at the game. One of the best non-PG passers in the games history. One of the all-time best perimeter defenders, a damn good rebounder, And was much much more versatile shooter/scorer than DWhistle.
There is no contest. Pippen was the clear cut better player.
If you want to compare this 4 it's like this:
MJ >>>>>> Pippen > LeBron >>>>> Wade.
Posted on 5/31/12 at 2:26 pm to Swanson's Mustache
Couldn't resist the Lebron threads for long eh?
This post was edited on 5/31/12 at 2:26 pm
Posted on 5/31/12 at 2:28 pm to Swanson's Mustache
quote:
Pippen was literally better at every facet at the game
quote:Better scorer? WTF
, And was much much more versatile shooter/scorer than DWhistle
he was a better defender. Wade is clearly the better offensive player.
Posted on 5/31/12 at 2:28 pm to TulaneTigerFan
quote:Wait, is this the new gamecock?
Couldn't resist the Lebron threads for long eh?
Ok, I"m out.
Posted on 5/31/12 at 2:30 pm to shel311
quote:
Better scorer? WTF
Wade is laughable outside of 12 feet. Pippen could knock down mid-long range jumpers on a consistent basis, Wade's outside game makes Mark Madsen laugh.
quote:
he was a better defender. Wade is clearly the better offensive player.
You have to be a major league homer or you just plain didn't watch Pippen play to think that Wade is better at any facet of the game. Pippen was by far the better player and it's not even a debate.
Posted on 5/31/12 at 2:32 pm to Swanson's Mustache
quote:Yea, this must be the new GCA.
You have to be a major league homer or you just plain didn't watch Pippen play to think that Wade is better at any facet of the game
Posted on 5/31/12 at 2:33 pm to shel311
quote:
Wait, is this the new gamecock?
I think this is Gamecock.
There are too many Ron Swanson based names now. Chicken should probably delete all of them, but one.
Posted on 5/31/12 at 2:37 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
It's him. 150+ posts in around 24 hours mainly in comic book movie, NBA, and political talk religion threads.
eta: Same posting style with the long paragraphs too, and now he's actually regurgitating some of his same NBA arguments.
eta: Same posting style with the long paragraphs too, and now he's actually regurgitating some of his same NBA arguments.
This post was edited on 5/31/12 at 2:38 pm
Posted on 5/31/12 at 2:39 pm to shel311
So judging by your nonexistent retort, I'm guessing you either no you are wrong and don't want to fess up to it or you are too delusional and actually believe that crap you said. Either way, you are wrong. 
There are so many duos better than LeBron/Wade:
Jordan/Pippen
Shaq/Kobe
Magic/Worthy
Magic/Kareem
Bird/McHale
Bird/Parrish
Hakeem/Drexler
Stockton/Malone
Payton/Kemp
And so on and such.
There are so many duos better than LeBron/Wade:
Jordan/Pippen
Shaq/Kobe
Magic/Worthy
Magic/Kareem
Bird/McHale
Bird/Parrish
Hakeem/Drexler
Stockton/Malone
Payton/Kemp
And so on and such.
Posted on 5/31/12 at 2:49 pm to Swanson's Mustache
I wasn't talking about the celtics back in the day who won twelve titles. I'm talking about the celtics now who traded\signed for Ray allen and Kevin Garnett.. (Brought 3 all stars to one team when they only had 1 in the first place- pierce) just like the heat..
Or the lakers who traded\signed for Shaq then traded\signed for Pau and Bynum.. Same shite, different toilet..
And really? Lebron had help in cleveland?? The best player he ever played with was shaq (who was WAY past his prime and should have retired way before he went there.. hardly played) and Mo Williams..
Mo Williams left Cleveland to be a 3rd string PG at the clippers.. I mean seriously.. Who was there to help him? Daniel Gibson? LOL.. Your seriously dillusional if you think he had any good players on his teams in Cleveland
Or the lakers who traded\signed for Shaq then traded\signed for Pau and Bynum.. Same shite, different toilet..
And really? Lebron had help in cleveland?? The best player he ever played with was shaq (who was WAY past his prime and should have retired way before he went there.. hardly played) and Mo Williams..
Mo Williams left Cleveland to be a 3rd string PG at the clippers.. I mean seriously.. Who was there to help him? Daniel Gibson? LOL.. Your seriously dillusional if you think he had any good players on his teams in Cleveland
Posted on 5/31/12 at 3:48 pm to TigerMan327
quote:
Every superstar who had a championship had help. Lebron didn't have help in cleveland, and they never brought him help. So he moved on
Well even if he didn't have help (which is false), he did have a team good enough to get the best record in the league in all the NBA, on two separate occasions.
quote:
If he wins a title with Wade and Bosh its just as tainted as The celtics or the lakers (it wont be)
Oh yes, yes it will be.
Posted on 5/31/12 at 3:49 pm to TigerMan327
Even the Celtics of today situation is different. All of those guys were in their 30s, not the primes of their careers. KG wanted out to any other franchise that was better than Minnesota. Boston came to them with the best offer. Not the same as the Bosh/James situation.
Allen was also traded by the Sonics in a rebuilding effort. Again, not the same as the Bosh/James situation. Their best player right now is Rondo, and he was drafted by the Celtics.
When the Lakers signed Shaq, their roster was decent at best. Still, Shaq was about to entire his prime rather than already being in it. Kobe was drafted the same year, but it's not like he was hyped as a some world beating franchise changer. He was the 13th pick behind such studs as Samaki Walker, Lorenzen Wright, and Kerry Kittles.
Even then, they didn't make the Finals until 4 years in, and the rest of their starting 5 consisted of a 36 year old AC Green (who was basically a lifelong Laker), 32 year old Glen Rice (who came via a March trade and off of an injury), and a 36 year old Ron Harper (who signed as a free agent). Yeah that was the exact same situation. Shaq signed before he entered his prime and Kobe was a 17 year old high school kid. When they won the title, they had Shaq in his prime, Kobe about to enter his prime, and 3 old arse role players as starters.
Yeah real murderer's row there.
Even with the newer Lakers, you are being disingenuous. Kobe was already there, Bynum was drafted by them and really didn't start living up until his potential until this season. They already had Lamar from when they traded Shaq to the Heat a few years prior. So 3 of their 4 title pieces were either drafted by the team or was brought in in an unrelated trade several years prior. So they went out in traded for Gasol who wanted to leave a franchise that made it clear that they were going to go into rebuilding mode anyways. Again, not even the same situation.
None of these situations are in anyway related or similar to what Bosh and James did. I don't really blame Bosh that much for leaving Toronto because they weren't doing much anyways. However, the Cavaliers had no intention of rebuilding and had done everything they could to build around LeBron and did so successful. If their supporting cast was so bad, then why were they able to win 120+ games in the two years before he left? The ydid everything they could for him but he refused to recruit for them. Even worse, he dragged out his "decision" so long that they didn't have a chance to go out and sign any free agents worth a shite to replace him.
And he had plenty of solid role players around him - Williams is a damn solid point, Gibson is/was one of the best three pointer shooters in the league, they had solid big man rotations that featured at various times Shaq, Big Ben, Big Z, Sideshow Bob, Jamison, and even a budding JJ Hickson. Their front court wasn't the best front court in the league, but his last 2-3 years there, it was a top 7-8 one at worst.
They did have some problems at the 2, but they had solid off ball points who could knockw down mid to long range shots on a consistent basis - West, Williams, and Gibson.
So did he ever have a stud elite number 2 player beside him? No. But he did have great supporting casts as a whole and should have accomplished more than a 4 game sweep during his time in Cleveland especially with how absolutely horrible the East was during his time there.
Allen was also traded by the Sonics in a rebuilding effort. Again, not the same as the Bosh/James situation. Their best player right now is Rondo, and he was drafted by the Celtics.
When the Lakers signed Shaq, their roster was decent at best. Still, Shaq was about to entire his prime rather than already being in it. Kobe was drafted the same year, but it's not like he was hyped as a some world beating franchise changer. He was the 13th pick behind such studs as Samaki Walker, Lorenzen Wright, and Kerry Kittles.
Even then, they didn't make the Finals until 4 years in, and the rest of their starting 5 consisted of a 36 year old AC Green (who was basically a lifelong Laker), 32 year old Glen Rice (who came via a March trade and off of an injury), and a 36 year old Ron Harper (who signed as a free agent). Yeah that was the exact same situation. Shaq signed before he entered his prime and Kobe was a 17 year old high school kid. When they won the title, they had Shaq in his prime, Kobe about to enter his prime, and 3 old arse role players as starters.
Yeah real murderer's row there.
Even with the newer Lakers, you are being disingenuous. Kobe was already there, Bynum was drafted by them and really didn't start living up until his potential until this season. They already had Lamar from when they traded Shaq to the Heat a few years prior. So 3 of their 4 title pieces were either drafted by the team or was brought in in an unrelated trade several years prior. So they went out in traded for Gasol who wanted to leave a franchise that made it clear that they were going to go into rebuilding mode anyways. Again, not even the same situation.
None of these situations are in anyway related or similar to what Bosh and James did. I don't really blame Bosh that much for leaving Toronto because they weren't doing much anyways. However, the Cavaliers had no intention of rebuilding and had done everything they could to build around LeBron and did so successful. If their supporting cast was so bad, then why were they able to win 120+ games in the two years before he left? The ydid everything they could for him but he refused to recruit for them. Even worse, he dragged out his "decision" so long that they didn't have a chance to go out and sign any free agents worth a shite to replace him.
And he had plenty of solid role players around him - Williams is a damn solid point, Gibson is/was one of the best three pointer shooters in the league, they had solid big man rotations that featured at various times Shaq, Big Ben, Big Z, Sideshow Bob, Jamison, and even a budding JJ Hickson. Their front court wasn't the best front court in the league, but his last 2-3 years there, it was a top 7-8 one at worst.
They did have some problems at the 2, but they had solid off ball points who could knockw down mid to long range shots on a consistent basis - West, Williams, and Gibson.
So did he ever have a stud elite number 2 player beside him? No. But he did have great supporting casts as a whole and should have accomplished more than a 4 game sweep during his time in Cleveland especially with how absolutely horrible the East was during his time there.
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