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re: Bart Starr is a top 6 All-Time Quarterback

Posted on 7/13/17 at 10:29 am to
Posted by ThePTExperience1969
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Apr 2016
13360 posts
Posted on 7/13/17 at 10:29 am to
Keep doubling down on that dislike, you all know you love these debates
Posted by dukke v
PLUTO
Member since Jul 2006
216435 posts
Posted on 7/13/17 at 10:30 am to
And Terry Bradshaw is a 4 time SB champ. And a 2x SB MVP... I guess he was as good or even better than Starr....
Posted by dukke v
PLUTO
Member since Jul 2006
216435 posts
Posted on 7/13/17 at 10:31 am to
The way you present things you act like there should be NO debate....
Posted by buccaneer88
San Antonio, TX
Member since Nov 2016
666 posts
Posted on 7/13/17 at 10:39 am to
quote:

Here we fricking go again


Posted by ThePTExperience1969
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Apr 2016
13360 posts
Posted on 7/13/17 at 10:40 am to
He could've been if he threw for less interceptions and achieved a higher passer rating, he was very erratic as a QB and his passer rating is 10 points less than Starr's. Also, Bradshaw had the benefit of playing with the 1978 rules changes that ended the dead ball era yet still couldn't achieve a passer rating over 100 in a season. At no point in his career did Bradshaw exceed an 88 passer rating playing a whole season, Bart Starr exceeded 88 6x in the dead ball era. Not to mention Bradshaw achieved a 30-26 TD/INT ratio in the playoffs, Favre-ian stats, I prefer a QB who makes a little less mistakes than that to even consider them among the 10 greatest QBs ever. Starr's better.
Posted by dukke v
PLUTO
Member since Jul 2006
216435 posts
Posted on 7/13/17 at 10:52 am to
Dude...... it was a fricking joke.....

Was Fran better than Starr
Was Montana better than Starr
Was Young better than Starr
Is Brady better than Starr
Was Manning better than Starr
Was Stabach better than Starr
Was Elway better than Starr
Was Graham better than Starr


I say yes to ALL of the above. And I could go on.....
Posted by ThePTExperience1969
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Apr 2016
13360 posts
Posted on 7/13/17 at 11:00 am to
The only players I feel are better than/as good as Starr are Montana, Brady, Manning, Brees, maybe Steve Young, when you're staring at a QB who was wildly efficient during the dead ball era and won 5 NFL championships, how do you not lump him in the top 5-6 QBs of all-time?
This post was edited on 7/13/17 at 11:01 am
Posted by dukke v
PLUTO
Member since Jul 2006
216435 posts
Posted on 7/13/17 at 11:06 am to
Ok... yet he played with the best players at that time and the best coach at that time... it's not even close... you could have put almost any QB from that era and they still would have won....
Posted by ThePTExperience1969
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Apr 2016
13360 posts
Posted on 7/13/17 at 11:17 am to
Well, with that logic, we shouldn't even be considering Montana or Young as great all-time QBs bc they played with the best players in their respective eras, Brady plays with the best coach of all-time, Manning the best receivers, hell even Staubach had the advantages of Tom Landry and all that offensive talent surrounding him. You can't penalize players for accomplishing what they accomplished with their supporting cast, also you're omitting the fact that Starr called his own plays as well. IIRC Johnny Unitas played with 2 HOF coaches and some of the best players at that time and only won 2 titles.

quote:

you could have put almost any QB from that era and they still would have won....


Again with the hypotheticals here, there's no way on the planet you can prove any of those QBs would've accomplished the same in that context. Bart Starr was built to play and excel in the dead ball era and excel bigly he did. Fact remains none of the other QBs from the era played for the Packers, only Starr did so that proposition is inapplicable.
Posted by H-Town Tiger
Member since Nov 2003
60998 posts
Posted on 7/13/17 at 11:17 am to
quote:

how do you not lump him in the top 5-6 QBs of all-time?


This is relevant info

-Led the league in comp. pct. 4x(62% when the league average was 51-52%)
-Led the league in passer rating 4x(exceeded 100 twice when the league average was 60)
-Retired as most accurate QB in NFL history
-Career average of 8 Y/A and 14 Y/C
-9-1 career postseason record, 15-3 TD/INT ratio, 105 passer rating
-Remains the highest-rated passer in playoff history despite being retired for 45 years

This is not

5x NFL champion
-2x Super Bowl champion
-2x Super Bowl MVP
-1966 NFL MVP

An potentially interesting topic again undermined by the OPs attitude and getting hung up on certain factors that often are not as important minus context.

Posted by ThePTExperience1969
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Apr 2016
13360 posts
Posted on 7/13/17 at 11:31 am to
quote:

This is not

5x NFL champion
-2x Super Bowl champion
-2x Super Bowl MVP
-1966 NFL MVP


Then explain to me why Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Fran Tarkenton, Dan Marino, Russell Wilson, Brett Favre and Peyton Manning aren't considered for no. 1 QB of all-time. Last time I checked, Drew Brees is the most accurate QB of all-time, Aaron Rodgers is the highest-rated passer of all-time, Fran Tarkenton retired with all relevant passing records and played in the dead ball era, Dan Marino was the first to eclipse 5,000 yards passing and retired with every passing record, Russell Wilson is among the highest-rated and most accurate passers in league history, Brett Favre broke all of Marino's records and maintains the most consecutive games streak, and Peyton Manning broke passing records in two separate seminal seasons and has the most career comeback wins. Fact is those accolades and rings do count to a player's legacy when a layman non-football player assesses how great a quarterback is and there's no way you can argue against that.
This post was edited on 7/13/17 at 11:37 am
Posted by Sugarloaf
Member since Apr 2013
106 posts
Posted on 7/13/17 at 11:36 am to
He's also a top-5 power forward, and you can't really argue that he isn't.
Posted by Zanzibaw
BR
Member since Jun 2016
2954 posts
Posted on 7/13/17 at 11:37 am to
quote:

ThePTExperience1969


Please stop saying "dead ball era"
Posted by H-Town Tiger
Member since Nov 2003
60998 posts
Posted on 7/13/17 at 11:44 am to
quote:

Then explain to me why Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Fran Tarkenton, Dan Marino, Russell Wilson, Brett Favre and Peyton Manning aren't considered for no. 1 QB of all-time



Considered by whom? It's hard to explain to someone like you who can not see beyond either or options. But generally I don't put too much stock in team accomplishments. My opinion of Tom Brady would be no different if the Seattle and Atlanta coaches had called running plays and won those games instead of NE.

Posted by ThePTExperience1969
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Apr 2016
13360 posts
Posted on 7/13/17 at 11:46 am to
The every day layman, NFL Network people, normal friends who assert Joe Montana or Tom Brady are the inarguable no.1 QB candidates and everyone else is inferior. NFL Network even did a list of Top 10 QBs of all-time.
Posted by Rouge
Floston Paradise
Member since Oct 2004
138511 posts
Posted on 7/13/17 at 11:49 am to
Please state your age. My guess is under 25 or over 65
Posted by SPEEDY
2005 Tiger Smack Poster of the Year
Member since Dec 2003
88139 posts
Posted on 7/13/17 at 11:53 am to
It's been asked before but not answered
Posted by buccaneer88
San Antonio, TX
Member since Nov 2016
666 posts
Posted on 7/13/17 at 12:09 pm to
quote:

Fact is those accolades and rings do count to a player's legacy when a layman non-football player assesses how great a quarterback is and there's no way you can argue against that.


Just because the layman considers them doesn't mean that they are relevant.
Posted by ThePTExperience1969
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Apr 2016
13360 posts
Posted on 7/13/17 at 12:17 pm to
Well then tell me the universally recognized criteria to determine what the best quarterback is bc the entire world would love to know
Posted by H-Town Tiger
Member since Nov 2003
60998 posts
Posted on 7/13/17 at 12:18 pm to
quote:

The every day layman, NFL Network people, normal friends who assert Joe Montana or Tom Brady are the inarguable no.1 QB candidates and everyone else is inferior. NFL Network even did a list of Top 10 QBs of all-time.


Do they rank Bradshaw third? If not why not? The "rings" argument may be common but it's still a lazy argument. If you think Tom Brady is the GOAT now but would not if Seattle and Atlanta had beaten him then that's just silly. As is the notion that Rodgers has to win at least 1 more to be considered the best in GB history.
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