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Posted on 3/22/23 at 12:54 pm to volfan30
quote:
Not resigning Dansby wasn’t a mistake but not addressing SS in some manner was.
We let our team captain go to a playoff rival when we were coming off a WS, the next year we got bounced in the first round of the playoffs and let the new team captain go as well
You can debate the baseball merits of both and I'm on record saying I wouldn't pay Dansby, but there is going to be a cost in the locker room at some point. Maybe we say it in the playoffs this year, IDK.
Posted on 3/22/23 at 3:02 pm to SteelerBravesDawg
quote:
ETA: If AA hasn't anyone's trust by now, than that's on them. Even if we can all agree that this move is curious.
Ehhh he's got my trust but I also regularly expect the bottom to fall out due to how he builds these teams.
On hand, yeah, locking up young talent and winning a WS is hard to argue with
But I personally think AA has been discount binning and trying to squeeze baseball out of declining performers on the cheap, and that sometimes it works well and that sometimes it's not working well.
I don't know the constraints he's under. But the issue I see is that we build these teams every year where we arguably have less margin for error than our rivals, and that gap is increasing as our rivals spend more and more on "sure things." This is on paper, and I genuinely don't know if I should have an issue with it or not, because over and over again AA manages to scrap together a decently to great performing team with paperclips and rubber bands while we see Mets endure repeated Mets-like issues.
I'm sure the reality is that this is life for almost all teams in MLB. But you can't expect people to have high confidence when we're constantly leaning on placeholder/journeymen to challenge for the WS.
Posted on 3/22/23 at 3:51 pm to Pettifogger
I think Dansby—agree with it or not—was considered a single player issue. And AA determined what it would have taken to sign him was simply not a good allocation of resources. I love Dansby, but I agree.
If they weren’t 100% sure that Grissom could win the SS job out of the spring, I think not getting a veteran guy for insurance was a frick up. Unless they like Arica more than I do.
I think Shewmake may have actually thrown them for a bit of a loop. He’s easily capable of handling SS on the big league level every day. But they just thought the bat wouldn’t play, because he’s struggled so much in the minors. But his offense in ST, may have made them re-think that. Maybe he CAN actually give you enough on offense to man SS every day long-term. But with such a small sample size, they want to see him hit in AAA for a bit to make sure.
And if they feel confident that he’s turned a corner and can handle big-league pitching, then maybe they re-think where Grissom best helps the team. Maybe it’s in LF or DH and as a utility IF. Cause his bat plays.
So they want to see more from his defense at SS every day in Gwinnett, while seeing how Shewmake constitutes to handle the bat. So Shewmake’s offense may have thrown a wrench in the plans, and they want to re-evaluate after a month or so of them playing every day.
And they may feel more comfortable with Arcia to hold down short for a month or so. However, I think not grabbing a vet like Andrus or somebody for insurance was risk that appears to have backfired a bit. However, I still don’t think it means we should have overpaid for Dansby. His was a singular issue.
If they weren’t 100% sure that Grissom could win the SS job out of the spring, I think not getting a veteran guy for insurance was a frick up. Unless they like Arica more than I do.
I think Shewmake may have actually thrown them for a bit of a loop. He’s easily capable of handling SS on the big league level every day. But they just thought the bat wouldn’t play, because he’s struggled so much in the minors. But his offense in ST, may have made them re-think that. Maybe he CAN actually give you enough on offense to man SS every day long-term. But with such a small sample size, they want to see him hit in AAA for a bit to make sure.
And if they feel confident that he’s turned a corner and can handle big-league pitching, then maybe they re-think where Grissom best helps the team. Maybe it’s in LF or DH and as a utility IF. Cause his bat plays.
So they want to see more from his defense at SS every day in Gwinnett, while seeing how Shewmake constitutes to handle the bat. So Shewmake’s offense may have thrown a wrench in the plans, and they want to re-evaluate after a month or so of them playing every day.
And they may feel more comfortable with Arcia to hold down short for a month or so. However, I think not grabbing a vet like Andrus or somebody for insurance was risk that appears to have backfired a bit. However, I still don’t think it means we should have overpaid for Dansby. His was a singular issue.
Posted on 3/22/23 at 4:04 pm to Hot Carl
quote:
However, I still don’t think it means we should have overpaid for Dansby.
What does "overpay" for Dansby actually entail? I agree that we shouldn't have give him the deal the Cubs gave him, but it sounds like we could've gotten him for price that, while pricey, would've been cheaper. Just like with Freddie, I think AA fails to understand that the contracts that seem a little expensive now actually become market value or a bargain within a year or two with how the spending is going.
I really am curious how much Dansby was willing to give up to stay in ATL. And considering our SS situation now, it's hard for me to say that we shouldn't have given it to him. Yeah, his hitting is a rollercoaster that is not that fun to be on, but he's a gold glove shortstop and it's hard to find that elsewhere.
I think the most annoying thing about how all of this has gone down is that we're in win-now mode and we've let an MVP and a gold glove shortstop, as well as two team leaders, walk. It's even worse that we let the second one walk without finding trying to even find a replacement. I just worry about going through all of this again in 2024 with Fried and we're just going to be like "Well Shuster is a LHP and he's been decent, he can obviously fill the void of a Cy Young contender."
I just don't think that is conducive to consistent winning.
This post was edited on 3/22/23 at 4:15 pm
Posted on 3/22/23 at 4:18 pm to Pettifogger
I don't understand what you mean by "bottom fall out" with the way he builds teams.
Look at our lineup - we have a really good player at
RF
CF
1B
2B
3B
2 x C
We have starting pitching and bullpen depth. This team does NOT depend on 2-3 big named stars and a bunch of no-names.
This roster is a well balanced roster everything needed to win during the 162 and in the playoffs.
We won't go down with an injury or 2. We won't go down if we lose a free agent. This team is built to win now and over the next few years.
Look at our lineup - we have a really good player at
RF
CF
1B
2B
3B
2 x C
We have starting pitching and bullpen depth. This team does NOT depend on 2-3 big named stars and a bunch of no-names.
This roster is a well balanced roster everything needed to win during the 162 and in the playoffs.
We won't go down with an injury or 2. We won't go down if we lose a free agent. This team is built to win now and over the next few years.
Posted on 3/22/23 at 4:22 pm to wheelz007
quote:
Look at our lineup - we have a really good player at
RF
CF
1B
2B
3B
2 x C
We could've had all that plus a good SS too.
No one is saying we're a bad team, but you have to add the context that we finished tied in record with one team in our division while losing to another team in our division in the playoffs. Both of those teams got significantly better at certain spots with FA acquisitions, while we didn't.
It's an arms race and I think it's very natural to wonder if we're keeping up.
This post was edited on 3/22/23 at 4:24 pm
Posted on 3/22/23 at 4:27 pm to Broski
I understand what you're saying, but add $20 or $27 mill to the payroll with Dansby, and which player or 2 do we have to trade next year because our payroll is over $200 mill.
I disagree with the sentiment that we didn't get better.
Our roster is FULL of players who are entering their primes.
Acuna and Ozzie should be better this year than last year. Those 2 far outweigh Dansby.
Riley may still be improving.
Will Rosario be as bad as he was last year, or better?
It is likely Michael Harris improves as well.
You get my point. I think we're loaded and every offseason we'll have to make tough decisions but as AA has said numerous times, you win with a strong 26 man roster.
We have that.
I disagree with the sentiment that we didn't get better.
Our roster is FULL of players who are entering their primes.
Acuna and Ozzie should be better this year than last year. Those 2 far outweigh Dansby.
Riley may still be improving.
Will Rosario be as bad as he was last year, or better?
It is likely Michael Harris improves as well.
You get my point. I think we're loaded and every offseason we'll have to make tough decisions but as AA has said numerous times, you win with a strong 26 man roster.
We have that.
Posted on 3/22/23 at 4:30 pm to wheelz007
quote:
I disagree with the sentiment that we didn't get better.
Our roster is FULL of players who are entering their primes.
Acuna and Ozzie should be better this year than last year. Those 2 far outweigh Dansby.
Riley may still be improving.
Will Rosario be as bad as he was last year, or better?
It is likely Michael Harris improves as well.
Ok, but if we're assuming everyone on our team improves this season, shouldn't we assume that for the Mets and Phillies talent as well?
Posted on 3/22/23 at 4:43 pm to Broski
The Mets -
I certainly don't think 40 yr old Verlander, 38 yr old Scherzer and 36 yr old Carasco will get better. Do you? DO you think those 3 guys make 90 starts?
The Phillies might be in a much better situation. THey have a bunch of guys in their primes and after last year's success, they may push us for the division.
But I think we're a deeper team than them too.
I certainly don't think 40 yr old Verlander, 38 yr old Scherzer and 36 yr old Carasco will get better. Do you? DO you think those 3 guys make 90 starts?
The Phillies might be in a much better situation. THey have a bunch of guys in their primes and after last year's success, they may push us for the division.
But I think we're a deeper team than them too.
Posted on 3/22/23 at 4:49 pm to wheelz007
quote:
I certainly don't think 40 yr old Verlander, 38 yr old Scherzer and 36 yr old Carasco will get better. Do you? DO you think those 3 guys make 90 starts?
But they didn't have Verlander last year, and yes, I think he makes more starts than De Grom did.
I also think Lindor is going to be better for them this year.
Posted on 3/22/23 at 4:54 pm to wheelz007
CF we still don’t know for sure. Heyward looked like he was gonna be an allstar when he first came up and didn’t pan out like we thought. You just never know giving rookies big contracts. Sooner or later AA will miss on one.
Posted on 3/22/23 at 4:58 pm to auzach91
quote:
CF we still don’t know for sure. Heyward looked like he was gonna be an allstar when he first came up and didn’t pan out like we thought. You just never know giving rookies big contracts. Sooner or later AA will miss on one.
I feel really good about Mike longterm even if his hit tool doesn't progress, or even regresses a bit. He still plays elite CF and that will always play regardless of how you're hitting.
With Heyward, his lack of hitting after his rookie year just wasn't enough to justify for a corner outfield spot.
Here's a good story on The Athletic how Harris is one of the few true two-way CF's left in the game.
LINK
Posted on 3/22/23 at 5:02 pm to Pettifogger
I much prefer the way the Braves build their team. Deep teams supplemented w/young, relatively affordable very good players/borderline superstars in Ozzie and Riley and a superstar in RAJ who are good clubhouse guys as opposed to going all in on a super team where chemistry may be an issue. Spending all that $$$ doesn't always(and most times it doesn't) equate to winning a title. You have to spend wisely.
AA said as much in his interview on 680 today; he used to subscribe to the "superstar team" in Toronto until he got burned by it due to the clash of personalities, it didn't equate to winning. Now he builds for depth and chemistry and guys who buy in, that does equate to winning.
But to say the Braves are cheap is wrong. They run their organization in much the same way the Patriots/Steelers and others run theirs, they WILL NOT overpay. And those teams are always in the playoff hunt and are two of the best run teams in sports. I wouldn't of paid Dansby what he was asking for, and ultimately got, either.
AA said as much in his interview on 680 today; he used to subscribe to the "superstar team" in Toronto until he got burned by it due to the clash of personalities, it didn't equate to winning. Now he builds for depth and chemistry and guys who buy in, that does equate to winning.
But to say the Braves are cheap is wrong. They run their organization in much the same way the Patriots/Steelers and others run theirs, they WILL NOT overpay. And those teams are always in the playoff hunt and are two of the best run teams in sports. I wouldn't of paid Dansby what he was asking for, and ultimately got, either.
Posted on 3/22/23 at 5:05 pm to Broski
Yes, his defensive side definitely gives more upside to him as he will likely win multiple gold gloves. Hitting though, just never know. But I guess that’s with anyone young. At least he’s elite in the field.
This post was edited on 3/22/23 at 5:06 pm
Posted on 3/22/23 at 5:05 pm to SteelerBravesDawg
quote:
Deep teams supplemented w/young, relatively affordable very good players/borderline superstars in Ozzie and Riley and a superstar in RAJ who are good clubhouse guys as opposed to going all in on a super team where chemistry may be an issue.
You're creating a strawman.
How does keeping Freddie and/or Dansby make for a chemistry issue? If anything, letting your team leaders walk would create more of an issue.
Posted on 3/22/23 at 5:08 pm to auzach91
quote:
Yes, his defensive side definitely gives more upside to him as he will likely win multiple gold gloves. Hitting though, just never know. But I guess that’s with anyone young. At least he’s elite in the field.
Agreed, but I think his hitting is in a good spot. His average exit velo and plate coverage last season show how advanced he already is. It's not just pure strength for him like it is with so many young players, he's already shown that he understands the nuances that makes for an already great plate approach.
Posted on 3/22/23 at 5:11 pm to Broski
quote:
Mets and Phillies talent as well?
The Mets offense, outside of Pouty Pete and Ratface, isn't good.
Scherzer's arm will get tired halfway through the year again as has happened the last 2 years. I'm not gonna count against Verlander. Dude is a machine.
The Phils offense is gonna smash, but their pitching isn't great.
Posted on 3/22/23 at 5:14 pm to SteelerBravesDawg
quote:
The Mets offense, outside of Pouty Pete and Ratface, isn't good.
Lindor is going to be better this year.
quote:
The Phils offense is gonna smash, but their pitching isn't great.
Their pitching shut us down when it mattered most last year and they improved the bullpen this year.
Posted on 3/22/23 at 5:15 pm to Broski
quote:
let two team leaders walk
As long as Snit is the manager, I'm not worried about clubhouse leadership.
Even saying that, I think Ozzie is the unquestioned leader of the clubhouse and actually has been the vocal/emotional leader even when Dansby and Freddie were here.
The whole leadership issue is overblown in baseball IMO.
This post was edited on 3/22/23 at 5:16 pm
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