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re: Assume they play their best. Who is the best golfer in the world?
Posted on 9/4/20 at 4:08 pm to Madking
Posted on 9/4/20 at 4:08 pm to Madking
quote:
Tiger hit it well at the PGA, I think he finished with like 2-3 birdies fewer than DJ but he just couldn’t putt. And his injuries and physical limitations have changed his prep work, which is probly the biggest difference in him now, minus age. But if he just has a hot putter one weekend he can win. Especially in an open setting where you can ride 2 good days to a championship. But if he hits it the way he did at Harding Park anything is possible.
Tiger is still one of the best iron players in the world. His putting aside, he just can’t attack greens with all the distance he’s lost compared to the top guys now, which presents him with fewer makeable birdie putts. You rarely saw Tiger lay up on par 5s in his prime. He does it more times than not now. He’s also having to use longer irons on his approach shots and can’t take the violent swings to the level he once could to make the seemingly impossible shots out of the rough. He plays for par and plays safe a lot more now because he physically can’t do what he used to be able to.
1
Posted on 9/4/20 at 4:09 pm to nugget
You’re absolutely right, I didn’t mean he was the old Tiger I just meant he made plenty of birdies and had plenty of par opps to put himself in range. He just missed make able putts all weekend. His plan for the course and execution tee to green was really good, he just couldn’t finish.
Posted on 9/4/20 at 4:11 pm to lsufball19
quote:
In Tiger’s prime, he was not overrated at all as a putter.
You can be overrated and still be good. People always mention him as being a top 5 putter in the game, which statistically isn't true. His iron play is what really set him apart from his competition.
Good thing putting isn't as important as other facets of the game.
Posted on 9/4/20 at 4:14 pm to lsufball19
Well the big hitters are past him now but it’s been that way for a decade. At Harding Park he was hitting it longer or as long as Morikawa and I watched every round, nobody was blowing it past him. You are right he doesn’t hit 200 yard short/mid irons into greens much anymore but it’s the putter that’s failed him everytime he’s been healthy enough to stay strong through a weekend.
Posted on 9/4/20 at 4:17 pm to nugget
Statistically you’re right but you have to take into account position too. If you’re hitting a few more greens your first putt is usually longer than someone who isn’t. Tiger made more long and high pressure putts than anyone by far during his prime.
Posted on 9/4/20 at 4:18 pm to ReauxlTide222
Rory, DJ, and JT all have ran away and hid in tournaments before. Rory is the only one to do it at a major bit those were a long time ago.
Tiger and Phil in their primes would still beat any of those guys with their historic A game but not anymore
Tiger and Phil in their primes would still beat any of those guys with their historic A game but not anymore
Posted on 9/4/20 at 4:18 pm to nugget
quote:
People always mention him as being a top 5 putter in the game, which statistically isn't true.
Lol wut?
Posted on 9/4/20 at 4:21 pm to nugget
quote:
You can be overrated and still be good. People always mention him as being a top 5 putter in the game, which statistically isn't true. His iron play is what really set him apart from his competition.
Good thing putting isn't as important as other facets of the game.
PGA Tour site only keeps advanced putting stats back to 2004. So here goes
Shots gained putting rank on Tour
2004: 2
2005: 5
2006: 21
2007: 2
2008: N/A (not enough rounds to qualify)
2009: 2
2010: N/A (not enough rounds to qualify)
I'd say the statistics show he was one of the best in the world and would assume his numbers would have been better from 2000-2003 than they were from 2004-2010. To say he was not a top 5 putter in the world in his prime is simply not supported by any reliable metric.
This post was edited on 9/4/20 at 4:26 pm
Posted on 9/4/20 at 4:25 pm to Madking
quote:
Well the big hitters are past him now but it’s been that way for a decade. At Harding Park he was hitting it longer or as long as Morikawa and I watched every round, nobody was blowing it past him. You are right he doesn’t hit 200 yard short/mid irons into greens much anymore but it’s the putter that’s failed him everytime he’s been healthy enough to stay strong through a weekend.
The putter has certainly been the biggest hurdle for him since he returned, I don't disagree with that. But I also think the distance he's lost makes in more difficult for him to attack certain pin locations when he's having to hit less lofted clubs than he could in his prime.
But really the biggest issue is he just can't physically practice as much as he wants to, and with less practice his game isn't going to be as consistent. But when his game is on, he can win golf tournaments still, which is quite amazing with his age and injuries he's battled. I still can't believe he came back and won the Masters (and two other tournaments) after spinal fusion surgery. One of the most impressive things I've seen in sports.
Posted on 9/4/20 at 4:25 pm to lsufball19
Well, you’re missing a good portion of his prime there. I was always under the impression that he was one of the best putters during his prime. I went to a seminar with Mark Broadie and another with Richie Hunt where they both talked in length about his putting, and especially his short putting, not being near the level of his ball striking.
Posted on 9/4/20 at 4:27 pm to nugget
quote:
they both talked in length about his putting, and especially his short putting, not being near the level of his ball striking.
Because he was unquestionably THE best ball striker in the world for 15 years and arguably of all-time. He may not have been THE best putter in the world in his prime, but he was easily top 5 in his prime.
quote:Right, because, as I said, those advanced stats aren't available from years prior to 2004. Do you think his putting was worse from 1999-2003 than they were in those years I provided?
Well, you’re missing a good portion of his prime there.
This post was edited on 9/4/20 at 4:34 pm
Posted on 9/4/20 at 4:37 pm to lsufball19
“But really the biggest issue is he just can't physically practice as much as he wants to,“
I think you’re right on target with this. I agree with your distance assessment to but to me that’s a natural age progression for anyone and he’s still long enough to create enough opportunities. Back to his practice, his back is probly more of a factor practicing putting than we realize.
I think you’re right on target with this. I agree with your distance assessment to but to me that’s a natural age progression for anyone and he’s still long enough to create enough opportunities. Back to his practice, his back is probly more of a factor practicing putting than we realize.
Posted on 9/4/20 at 4:39 pm to lsufball19
I don't know what constitutes short putting but Tiger used to be a god from 6-15 feet.
Posted on 9/4/20 at 4:44 pm to beaverfever
Yep and from what I’ve seen that’s the biggest difference with him this year. He’s just not making nearly as many from that range.
Posted on 9/4/20 at 4:46 pm to Madking
I've heard a few golfers say that putting was one of the first parts of their game to deteriorate with age.
Posted on 9/4/20 at 4:48 pm to Madking
He honestly hasn't consistently been particularly good from that range in a long while. He has good weekends but when all parts of his game are clicking it's that putter that holds him back now.
Posted on 9/4/20 at 4:50 pm to ReauxlTide222
Tony Finau
Posted on 9/4/20 at 4:53 pm to beaverfever
And especially with that part of the game any crack in confidence can snowball. You can miss by an inch or 2 consistently and the results start to become huge.
Posted on 9/4/20 at 5:02 pm to Madking
Well that's what people really don't want to admit but arguably the biggest part of his game that's slipped with age is his confidence. That's normal though. Age has a way of moderating your ego.
Posted on 9/4/20 at 5:03 pm to Madking
You know he's struggling with the putter when he's used 4 different putters since his return in 2018. He went back to his old Scotty, then to a mallett, then back to the Scotty, then a different Scotty, then back to his old Scotty, and then used his old Scotty with added leaded tape to change the weight his last tournament. Prior, he used the same Scotty from the time he was an amateur until 2011 when he switched to the Nike Method putter. Even his buddy Stricker commented on him switching, said it was so unusual for someone as good a putter as Tiger had been in his career to go through so many changes in such a short period of time. He obviously jokingly gave him the benefit of the doubt because he's Tiger Woods. But he's clearly trying to find something he can't figure out anymore on a consistent basis. He doesn't seem to read greens as well, and his speed has been downright awful at times.
This post was edited on 9/4/20 at 5:06 pm
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