re: Trump backs tax hike on rich but says GOP probably shouldn't do it

Hmmm, that data doesn’t seem to jive with the tax policy center data I have been referencing lately. I wonder if there is something I am missing?

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The Tax Policy Center has estimated the effects of making the major individual tax provisions permanent. Their estimates show that TCJA permanence will make the tax code more progressive than the original 2017 law, sifting the tax burden further up the income distribution. As Figure 1 shows, the lowest income quintiles would benefit from the largest tax cuts under TCJA permanence relative to current law (which assumes the tax cuts expire).

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LINK

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most economists are fairly critical of the laffer curve

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Likely the same economists who advised Bill Clinton the imposition of a luxury tax was economically sound policy? Most economists are academic leftists and approach "truths" in their field through a leftist lense.

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I’ve never suggested the wealthiest aren’t responsible for a large portion of tax revenues, in fact given the wealth and income disparity mathematically they have to be.

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Regarding our "wealth and income disparity," US MEDIAN income is the 5th highest in the world out of ~170 nations. That does not point to hardships associated with wealth disparity. Quite the opposite.

Meanwhile, our tax code has become more progressive over time.

1980 (last Carter year)
The top 1% paid 19% of all federal income taxes.
The bottom 50% paid approximately 7%.

2012 (Obama)
The top 1% paid 38.1% of all federal income taxes.
The bottom 50% paid approximately 2.8%.

2021 (Present)
The top 1% of earners paid 45.8% of all federal income taxes.
The bottom 50% contributed 2.3%.

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Yes, it is called the laffer curve.

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Laffer is a joke of an "economist", no pun intended. Few mainstream economists agree with his premise that cutting taxes leads to increased tax receipts. History itself disagrees with his premise.


Serious question, why do some folks white knight for fricking billionaires? I just don't get it. You'll never be one of them. They don't give two shits about you and, in fact, look down on you. These people feast at the taxpayer troughs (Musk got $6B in fed money last year alone) and yet you defend? Why? Is it pride fricking with you?

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Serious question, why do some folks white knight for fricking billionaires? I just don't get it. You'll never be one of them. They don't give two shits about you and, in fact, look down on you.

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Because I believe in property rights, freedom, and the right to keep most of what you earn.

You, on the other hand, see a billionaire and automatically assume they got all that money by shady, unjust means.

You have shown time and time again on this forum that you have absolutely zero grasp of the concept of mutually beneficial economic transactions that are the bedrock of market economies.


You see a billionaire and ask “‘man, who did he take all that money from?”

I see a billionaire and ask “man, what service did he provide/invent that so many consumers valued?”

People like Rockefeller, Carnegie, Sam Walton, etc did more to improve the lot of the ordinary man than any govt program, so yea, it’s entirely reasonable to think the economy is better off with them investing their fortunes in various enterprises than a bureaucrat who pays no price for being wrong.

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They own 2.5% of American wealth. They don't matter, frankly. 67,000,000 households essentially shut out of the wealth generated by the American economy.

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What does this have to do with income taxes? Are you aware wealth and income are separate things?

The bottom 50% of households absolutely matter when it comes to potential income taxes revenue.

For most of American history, the bottom 50% paid at least something via income taxes. Now they don’t pay anything and in fact get a bunch of unearned income back.

It is not unreasonable to think they can start having skin in the game

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You, on the other hand, see a billionaire and automatically assume they got all that money by shady, unjust means.

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No one makes generates billions in wealth without stepping on people to get there. That's capitalism....for every winner there's a loser. As the other guy has already explained, these people are NOTHING without the American government and their fellow taxpayers. There's a reason America turns out billionaires like they're going out of style and other countries don't....it's our infrastructure, our workforce, our technologies, our freedoms, and our staggering investments, by the government, in R&D.

Sam Walton? WalMart, who pays their people so shitty and keep them part time so they can't get health insurance, forcing them all onto government assistance paid for by all of us? That Sam Walton? Rockefeller and Carnegie? Ruthless businessmen who used child labor? A guy in Carnegie who fired on striking workers and burned down their encampments, killing kids in the process? These are your examples of greatness?!

I love capitalism as long as it has appropriate safeguards in place to not let it run awry and ruin our country. Reasonable regulations, a fair and progressive tax system, strong antitrust efforts, watchdogs to prevent corruption, etc....these aren't big asks. They sure as hell aren't Marxist or communist or whichever other label you sheep use these days.

Government has done a hell of a lot more for Americans than any clown arse billionaire, I can tell you that.

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punished for it.

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Taxes aren't punishment. Taxes are the bill you pay to live in our country and become wildly successful. These folks couldn't have done it without us.

I also believe that, yes, there is such a thing as too much wealth being held by a single individual. These people should be ashamed of themselves to hold wealth like that. Props to people like Buffet and Gates who at least recognize they've been given an incredible gift and have, or will, give away the vast majority of their wealth.

I go back to my example from earlier. I believe you're an IT/tech guy...not sure what your wife does but let's ballpark it and say your household income is about $200k/yr. Pretty solid and puts you in the top 20% of American households.

To reach just $1B in wealth at your current income level, you would have to work every year since 2975 fricking BC. 5000 years at $200k year and you'd reach your first billy.

So what about reaching the wealth of a guy like Elon Musk, currently estimated net worth of $400,000,000,000. At your current income level, that's 2 million years, dude. 2 million. You know what was happening on Earth 2 million years ago? HomoSapiens first appeared 2.8 million years ago.....so you'd basically have to work since the dawn of mankind until now to be worth what Elon Musk is worth.

No man, no matter what the frick they do or have done, should be worth that much money. It's unethical, unfair, and a fricking embarrassment to our capitalist beliefs.

Just out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on Javier Milei?

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I also believe that, yes, there is such a thing as too much wealth being held by a single individual

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You as a upper middle class American are in the top 1% of income earners in the world

If a person from Sierra Leone told you to your face that he thinks you have too much wealth, what would your response be?

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He built a company, and most of that net worth is due to ownership of shares in said company

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And look at the value these companies have delivered to mankind…NTM the wealth they’ve helped generate for others.

PayPal revolutionized online trade
Tesla revolutionized electric vehicles
SpaceX is doing shite with space travel that NASA can’t do
X is the largest free speech platform in the world

I mean, hats off to the guy. He’s probably done more with his money to move the needle than Gates did with his foundation.