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PPP Payroll Allocation

Posted on 4/22/20 at 11:06 am
Posted by lesgeaux
Member since Jul 2008
3362 posts
Posted on 4/22/20 at 11:06 am
Does the 75% of previous payroll amount have to go to the employees who were on staff before all of this or can you hire someone new and pay what the previous person was making and still have the loan money forgiven? Have an employee that is not ready to come back to work due to a temporary position she got elsewhere but wants to come back in the future once that position is no longer available. But my concern is if I hire someone new and pay them instead, that money will not be forgivable since it wasn’t being paid to the employee I laid off when all of this began
Posted by Brummy
Central, LA
Member since Oct 2009
4505 posts
Posted on 4/22/20 at 12:00 pm to
It shouldn't matter who you're paying, as long as you legitimately paid it and you don't exceed the limit for each individual employee.
Posted by LSUFanHouston
NOLA
Member since Jul 2009
37106 posts
Posted on 4/22/20 at 12:20 pm to
You can't reduce headcount and you can't reduce pay by more than a percentage.

You can pay a different person. Otherwise, forgiveness would be tough.
Posted by ValZacs
Zachary/Valpo
Member since Jan 2009
284 posts
Posted on 4/22/20 at 1:06 pm to
It doesn't have to be the same person, just the same FTE head count for whichever period you designate. Also, you have until 6/30/2020 to accomplish this. The one thing i am not sure of is,,,,,if you are -1 head count when you get the ppp and your 8 weeks is up before 6/30, how the heck does that work?
Posted by tgrbaitn08
Member since Dec 2007
146214 posts
Posted on 4/22/20 at 1:18 pm to
quote:

Also, you have until 6/30/2020 to accomplish this.


I was told yesterday I had 8 weeks from the date you were funded...so if I was funded yesterday I have until June 21st
Posted by NOSHAU
Member since Feb 2012
11909 posts
Posted on 4/22/20 at 1:24 pm to
quote:

I was told yesterday I had 8 weeks from the date you were funded...so if I was funded yesterday I have until June 21st
That's not 8 weeks.
Posted by slinger1317
Northshore
Member since Sep 2005
5856 posts
Posted on 4/22/20 at 1:30 pm to
We received funding in the first round of PPP. We are keeping a running total of our payroll and other forgivable costs (rent, utilites).

Once we get to week 6 or so if we look like we won't spend the full allocation, we will look at paying commissions/bonuses etc. to our employees as a form of "hazard pay" in order to maximize our use of the forgivable loan.
Posted by VABuckeye
Naples, FL
Member since Dec 2007
35558 posts
Posted on 4/22/20 at 1:36 pm to
Commission is a yes. Bonuses are a gray (ish) area.
Posted by slinger1317
Northshore
Member since Sep 2005
5856 posts
Posted on 4/22/20 at 1:41 pm to
quote:

Commission is a yes. Bonuses are a gray (ish) area


That's what we are seeing as well. We are pretty conservative financially so we will probably wind up bumping annual commissions up to fall within our 8 weeks and send the rest of the $$$ back to the bank. It's tempting to get really creative with it, but we are doing okay and would rather not open the door for a never-ending stream of audits.
Posted by doya2
Charenton
Member since Jan 2005
7929 posts
Posted on 4/22/20 at 2:10 pm to
Whatever you don’t use on payroll, utilities and rent you give back or pay back.
Posted by VABuckeye
Naples, FL
Member since Dec 2007
35558 posts
Posted on 4/22/20 at 2:12 pm to
And group health insurance premiums (which fall under payroll).
Posted by CHiPs25
ATL
Member since Apr 2014
2901 posts
Posted on 4/22/20 at 2:21 pm to
I talked to our CPA at length about this yesterday and all the comments in here are correct. If your FTE is 10, you may want to hire 2-3 extra people for the next 8 weeks just to make sure your head count is above your baseline. Also, make sure that you understand what non-payroll you're allowed to pay. Everyone knows rent and utilities but there are also approved expenditures for transportation and interest payments. The transportation has not been clarified yet, but my assumption would be that any gas that is used for company vehicles is an approved expense.

We are also keeping a spreadsheet of all expenditures over the next 8 weeks that would apply and will be paying out commissions to some of our people to ensure we come as close to our loan as possible.
Posted by tgrbaitn08
Member since Dec 2007
146214 posts
Posted on 4/22/20 at 2:27 pm to
Ha you’re right. Not sure why my CPA told me that
Posted by Spock
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Member since Mar 2010
1176 posts
Posted on 4/22/20 at 2:42 pm to
quote:

You can pay a different person. Otherwise, forgiveness would be tough.


I'm not sure this is correct. The language I'm looking at says "for any employee who did not earn during any period in 2019 wages at an annualized rate more than $100,000, the amount of any reduction in wages that is greater than 25% compared to their most recent full quarter."

I have been under the assumption that any employee that was employed in 2019 needs to be paid atleast 75% of their 2020 first quarter wages otherwise the forgiveness is reduced dollar for dollar. The question then becomes what to do with the employees who worked in 2019, but quit for some other reason other then COVID?
Posted by tgrbaitn08
Member since Dec 2007
146214 posts
Posted on 4/22/20 at 2:45 pm to
quote:

e funded...so if I was funded yesterday I have until June 21st
That's not 8 weeks.



I just called him and he said something about the 16th or 17th. Doesn’t matter. All our PPP is going to rent, utilities and payroll and will be spent before the 8 weeks is up.
Posted by tgrbaitn08
Member since Dec 2007
146214 posts
Posted on 4/22/20 at 2:48 pm to
quote:

And group health insurance premiums (which fall under payroll).



We’re also sending a portion to our SEP accounts.
Posted by shawnlsu
Member since Nov 2011
23682 posts
Posted on 4/22/20 at 2:50 pm to
quote:

I have been under the assumption that any employee that was employed in 2019 needs to be paid atleast 75% of their 2020 first quarter wages otherwise the forgiveness is reduced dollar for dollar.

This is false.
FTE has to match, you don't have to pay someone that worked for you last year but is no longer there. That would be foolish.
Posted by Spock
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Member since Mar 2010
1176 posts
Posted on 4/22/20 at 2:54 pm to
quote:

This is false.
FTE has to match, you don't have to pay someone that worked for you last year but is no longer there. That would be foolish.


Ok I'm sure that's how the final rules are going to come out, but it doesn't seem to be that way right now. But the bigger issue is that I don't think you can just hire and pay any random employee. It's going to look at each individual employee's salary in the prior quarter as a comparison. So anyone's salary that drops more then 25% will reduce the forgiveness amount.
Posted by VABuckeye
Naples, FL
Member since Dec 2007
35558 posts
Posted on 4/22/20 at 3:00 pm to
quote:

We’re also sending a portion to our SEP accounts.


The second I hit submit I knew I'd ommitted that part.
Posted by LSUFanHouston
NOLA
Member since Jul 2009
37106 posts
Posted on 4/22/20 at 3:03 pm to
quote:

I'm not sure this is correct. The language I'm looking at says "for any employee who did not earn during any period in 2019 wages at an annualized rate more than $100,000, the amount of any reduction in wages that is greater than 25% compared to their most recent full quarter."

I have been under the assumption that any employee that was employed in 2019 needs to be paid atleast 75% of their 2020 first quarter wages otherwise the forgiveness is reduced dollar for dollar. The question then becomes what to do with the employees who worked in 2019, but quit for some other reason other then COVID?


Let me clarify.

You need to pay your employees you currently have working for you.

If you paid them in 2019 and they are working for you in 2020 you need to pay them.

If an employee who worked for you in 2019 decides not to come back to work, and you hire a new employee to take that employee's place, you need to pay the new employee.
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