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Posted on 5/20/21 at 4:12 pm to Future Islands
Jack and Charles on PoS vs PoW
This is the logical next step after Elon's tweet. The market will need to figure this out to move on, imo. The question being what are the tradeoffs in security, decentralization and scalability between PoW and PoS systems.
This is the logical next step after Elon's tweet. The market will need to figure this out to move on, imo. The question being what are the tradeoffs in security, decentralization and scalability between PoW and PoS systems.
Posted on 5/20/21 at 4:17 pm to Douglas Quaid
Jack is completely right. Bitcoin needs to remain PoW if it is going to survive long term. It cannot be beat on its security and decentralization aspects. If it forks to PoS, then its really no better than a handful of others. The solution for bitcoin is to push mining to renewables and waste streams, which is actively occurring. The NYMag article I link a couple pages back brown it down beautifully. Bitcoin incentivizes renewable energy usage and investment. It must remain PoW if its going to last 10+ years.
Posted on 5/20/21 at 4:21 pm to TigerTatorTots
Bringo
Posted on 5/20/21 at 4:26 pm to Douglas Quaid
with PoS you can just print money and buy up the supply and control the network.
with PoW there are logistical, time, resource & political constraints.
both systems have a purpose but one seems to be mostly a meme at this point
with PoW there are logistical, time, resource & political constraints.
both systems have a purpose but one seems to be mostly a meme at this point
Posted on 5/20/21 at 4:27 pm to rocket31
considering memes seem to be what do well in this space...
Posted on 5/20/21 at 4:28 pm to TigerTatorTots
quote:
It cannot be beat on its security and decentralization aspects.
It cannot be beat on its security -
There have been 2 bugs found in BTC?
(an auditor for bitcoin cash found a bug that allowed you to "print" as many BTC as you want. This dude could have gotten as much BTC as he wanted and no one would have known. He didn't do it. He helped them fix the bug).
https://www.coindesk.com/the-latest-bitcoin-bug-was-so-bad-developers-kept-its-full-details-a-secret
So yes, it can be beat on security.
2. It cannot be beat on..decentralization aspects
quote:
There are around 1,000 individuals who own 40% of the market.
https://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-whales-the-key-facts-figures-you-need-to-know-2021-1
The coin itself, is not very "decentralized".
Either here nor there on either of these issue's. But the fact that people act like BTC is the end all be all is ridiculous.
This post was edited on 5/20/21 at 4:30 pm
Posted on 5/20/21 at 4:29 pm to Tiguar
youre exactly right and thats why i am invested into the meme while this discussion evolves
for example, Solana is running with the eco-friendly PoS, proof of history ETH replacement narrative, and its going to be very effective
for example, Solana is running with the eco-friendly PoS, proof of history ETH replacement narrative, and its going to be very effective
Posted on 5/20/21 at 4:39 pm to boomtown143
1- Bitcoin code is open source, and has been for 12 years. People have been trying to "hack" it for over a decade and a grand total of zero have succeeded.
2- Whales owning the market has nothing to do with being decentralized. The rules that govern the network are decentralized - they cannot be changed by a single group or a single state.
Bitcoin isn't the end all be all. There are a few projects that actually have a use case, or are developing use cases. There will just be nothing that will compete with bitcoin as long as it can remain PoW. People also forget that all crypto projects don't do the same thing. When I say nothing can compete with Bitcoin, I mean in its corner of the cryptosphere.
2- Whales owning the market has nothing to do with being decentralized. The rules that govern the network are decentralized - they cannot be changed by a single group or a single state.
Bitcoin isn't the end all be all. There are a few projects that actually have a use case, or are developing use cases. There will just be nothing that will compete with bitcoin as long as it can remain PoW. People also forget that all crypto projects don't do the same thing. When I say nothing can compete with Bitcoin, I mean in its corner of the cryptosphere.
Posted on 5/20/21 at 4:40 pm to boomtown143
BTC decentralization has to do with mining. Not who owns the coins. Who owns the coins only really matters for PoS.
Posted on 5/20/21 at 4:44 pm to JayDeerTay84
Bitcoin lightning network also completely demolishes the energy FUD. Lightning will be able to handle orders of magnitude more transactions than Visa on a daily basis, at <1% of the energy used as compared to Visa. Lightning is incredibly fascinating and I hope becomes mainstream soon.
Posted on 5/20/21 at 4:46 pm to TigerTatorTots
Bitcoin has intrinsic factors that can never be recreated again - what Satoshi invented would be impossible today - thats what makes it so valuable
i think most of us are well aware of its limitations but its continued success will lift up the rest of the market; im very confident that if we have a strong bitcoin we will have strong alts.
if bitcoin fails, im not sure what the market turns into
i think most of us are well aware of its limitations but its continued success will lift up the rest of the market; im very confident that if we have a strong bitcoin we will have strong alts.
if bitcoin fails, im not sure what the market turns into
This post was edited on 5/20/21 at 4:50 pm
Posted on 5/20/21 at 4:46 pm to rocket31
Yeah if bitty can avoid doing what she did yesterday, it should be a hot #solanasummer
Posted on 5/20/21 at 5:49 pm to boomtown143
quote:
So yes, it can be beat on security.
A bug in the code isn’t the same issue as a consensus algorithm. PoW is battle tested and the network is extremely secure.
quote:
The coin itself, is not very "decentralized".
This is irrelevant because it’s PoW. This is exactly why PoS is questionable. Many of the stake coins have lots of concentration.
Posted on 5/20/21 at 6:04 pm to DallasTiger11
Here's my take, from a person with a bearish long-term view on BTC.
1) BTC network is very secure currently. I'm not conviced it'll be as secure once issuance stops (though that doesn't mean it won't be secure enough), but I'll defer to BTC experts/bulls that can explain how mining will continue to be lucrative post 21M BTC. Admittedly, this is probably a quick Google search but I haven't done that yet.
2) BTC mining will continually become more and more centralized as rewards become harder and harder to mine.
2A) Will it be more centralized that PoS? Remains to be seen. I know that the ETH team plans to lower the amount of ETH required to stake/validate as time goes on, but if ETH price continues to rise that may not mean a whole lot.
3) BTC will pretty much always have a place as a SOV for it's intrensic, immutable properties. There's a reason it's compared to digital gold. But, thinking in decades, programmable and faster networks will dominate the space IMO.
1) BTC network is very secure currently. I'm not conviced it'll be as secure once issuance stops (though that doesn't mean it won't be secure enough), but I'll defer to BTC experts/bulls that can explain how mining will continue to be lucrative post 21M BTC. Admittedly, this is probably a quick Google search but I haven't done that yet.
2) BTC mining will continually become more and more centralized as rewards become harder and harder to mine.
2A) Will it be more centralized that PoS? Remains to be seen. I know that the ETH team plans to lower the amount of ETH required to stake/validate as time goes on, but if ETH price continues to rise that may not mean a whole lot.
3) BTC will pretty much always have a place as a SOV for it's intrensic, immutable properties. There's a reason it's compared to digital gold. But, thinking in decades, programmable and faster networks will dominate the space IMO.
This post was edited on 5/20/21 at 6:41 pm
Posted on 5/20/21 at 6:46 pm to rocket31
quote:
with PoS you can just print money and buy up the supply and control the network.
Has that happened yet among any of the coins that use PoS?
quote:
both systems have a purpose but one seems to be mostly a meme at this point
I don't think PoS is a meme. In terms of a payment system, it seems better poised due to the sheer scalability, but that scalability was only achieved relatively recently, and is seen only in a few, very tiny projects. The modularity seen in the Cosmos SDK built on the Tendermint BFT has seen lots of use already through Polygon and Binance's blockchains, with the former considered proof of stake while the latter is not technically governed by a PoS mechanism, rather relying on the BFT consensus method itself. In other words, the Cosmos architecture provides the ability of developers to determine the type of consensus each project requires. The ability of these networks to process transactions is well-supported, and is needed if cryptocurrency is to actually reach a currency stage. I don't see PoW solving its scaling issues, which limit it significantly.
Posted on 5/20/21 at 6:49 pm to TigerTatorTots
Lightning makes me want to start running a node.
Posted on 5/20/21 at 6:49 pm to crazy4lsu
I'm not sure if it was pos or pow but I briefly saw an article on something showing ethcheap I think? On how a 51% hack would look like that he actually did.
He said he would reimburse everyone that had coins though
He said he would reimburse everyone that had coins though
This post was edited on 5/20/21 at 6:52 pm
Posted on 5/20/21 at 6:51 pm to DallasTiger11
quote:
A bug in the code isn’t the same issue as a consensus algorithm. PoW is battle tested and the network is extremely secure.
The PoS models that are employed are also "battle-tested" and built on the same BFT implementation that PoW models are built on, in principle.
quote:
This is irrelevant because it’s PoW. This is exactly why PoS is questionable. Many of the stake coins have lots of concentration.
Which coins specifically have been manipulated through validators?
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