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Living on bitcoin for 1 week (long, but worth it)

Posted on 5/9/13 at 5:45 pm
Posted by Vols&Shaft83
Throbbing Member
Member since Dec 2012
70096 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 5:45 pm
If, for some reason, you missed it, Forbes blogger Kashmir Hill spent a week using nothing but bitcoins as cash in what I can only assume was an experiment to prove that it can be done and to demonstrate the viability of Bitcoin as a currency. The true believers will inevitably point to this experience as an example of Bitcoin working in the real world, but their bias blinds them to the truth: it is not possible to survive using nothing but bitcoins. As a publication is totally unbiased and entirely honest with regard to bitcoins, Let's point out the things that bitcoiners ignored or glossed over.

Kashmir began with a sum of five bitcoins (when they were selling for roughly $142.00,) purchased through Coinbase, since the Mt.Gox is awful and legitimate banks won’t allow funds to be transferred to a shady Japanese “business.” She immediately discovered that you can’t buy food with bitcoins unless you’re willing to buy questionable preserves from strangers or stock up on end-of-the-world survivalist rations. Someone eventually pointed her to a service which acts as a middleman, ordering things from local restaurants and then delivering them, adding a service fee for the convenience. For some reason, they accept bitcoins. She immediately handed over an entire bitcoin, giving them around $130.00 at the time for orders yet to be made. Kashmir has jokingly referred to this week as the “Bitcoin diet,” since she ends up walking and biking in order to get to wherever she’s going, and can’t get sufficient or healthy food.

Before we move on, I must bring up the next salient point: the “price” of bitcoins is fantastically unstable. The alleged value of bitcoins is driven entirely by speculation and is prone to wild oscillations. During the week, Kash’s initial “investment” of around $735.00 shrank to somewhere around $395.00 and bounced unpredictably up and down in between. Any business with an ounce of sense and a desire to make reliable profits will price their products in dollars (or whatever other national currency their location requires) and then adjust the Bitcoin price for the goods based on the current exchange rate.

Coming back to the subject at hand, on DAY 2 of the week of Bitcoin, Kash finds (or likely already knows) that her landlord, who she usually pays through PayPal, doesn’t accept bitcoins. Her landlord, in actuality a friend, offers to let her pay rent with real money later on, but Kash is committed to her suffering and “in an act of desperation,” sends her landlord two of her bitcoins via Coinbase email and, realizing the futility of this action, begins to search for lodging that will accept bitcoins. At the end of the second day, she’s only got 1.75 left, which at the time amounts to a little over $150. She mentions that she has been receiving “tips,” the Bitcoin equivalent of change dropped into an empty coffee cup on a street corner, but doesn’t reveal how much these equal. To celebrate lack of foresight, she spends another $30 on coffee and wine.

On DAY 3, nothing terribly notable happens. Kash goes to an odd production in which people are locked in a room, but had purchased the tickets months beforehand with filthy fiat money. Feeling guilty over this, she works out a way to justify using them, letting her date buy them from her through a convoluted process involving a Bitcoin ATM of sorts, hosted by The Internet Archive in their offices. This gives her an additional 0.6757 bitcoins to spend later. She pays for a partially-comped meal and then walks two miles to the show. The day closes out with 1.9931 plus undisclosed tips, $181 at the time.



DAY 4 opens with an even lower price, as CoinLab’s lawsuit against MtGox was announced late the previous evening, along with the revelation that there are links to child pornography embedded in the blockchain, panicking “investors” and leading to sales and drops in the market. It’s a Friday, so Kashmir struggles to find something entertaining to do during the weekend that doesn’t require real money and settles on a family birthday party, to which she takes 0.5896 BTC worth of cupcakes. Before hitting up the party though, she purchases around a hundred dollars worth of groceries at an artisanal (read “overpriced”) market, her haul appearing to be sufficient for two or three days’ worth of meals. $100 at Costco can keep me fed for a month if I plan it out just right.

She outlines meeting with the entrepreneur who runs the market and somehow comes to the conclusion that bitcoiners are akin to vegans, probably because they can’t eat much in the way of healthy food and end up pale and malnourished, but with a higher concentration of fedoras. She pays him and he immediately spends it on something else rather than risk losing value during the price fluctuations. She goes home and spends the evening in, finding later that her landlord has rejected the two bitcoins because they’re an awful hassle, bringing her balance back up to 2.2397.

The next day she pays the man who delivers the wine she’d ordered a few days before to drive her to her family BBQ, giving her brother-in-law the worst gift imaginable: 0.34 BTC. She spends the rest of the party evangelizing about bitcoins and people there allegedly want some of their own. Someone else drives her home. Aside from the 0.34, nothing is spent.

Sunday arrives and Kashmir must move out of her condo and into somewhere that accepts bitcoins for rent payments. In lieu of an earnest search, she posts on reddit instead, inviting the worst of the worst of the Bitcoin community to meet her in person and eat sushi, then buys more expensive groceries from Buyer’s Best Friend. After more leisure time (and a free guest pass to a museum,) she returns to the condo to pack up her things and moves into 20 Mission, which appears to have been a crack house in a previous life, replete with holes in the ceilings, unfinished floors, chickens on the roof, and police raids due to suspected squatters. The co-founders of the hostel stated they’d had to clean up old hypodermic needles when they first started the place. She pays one bitcoin ($114 at the time) for this. I’ve stayed in nicer motels for $35 a night.

After a night of fitful sleep, she makes a Skype call to Pyry Lehdonvirta, the CEO of a Finnish software company whose employees receive pay in Bitcoin. His experiment, too, is a failure, the rapid price fluctuations leading to losses one way or another. He himself got out right before the last big crash, selling for $250 apiece. She later meets up with Dan Kaminsky, who is at times a bit more realistic about bitcoins than most enthusiasts. They discuss bitcoins, because once you drink the Bitcoin Kool Aid, all you can think about are the damned things.

In the end, Kashmir declares the week a success. Not everyone would agree. Thanks to Bitcoin, she is now living in a slightly renovated crackhouse, travelling to her job either on foot or on a bike with questionable brakes, has lost five pounds from the combination of extra exercise and malnutrition, and only managed some of this due to the Bitcoin equivalent of a returned check and funds obtained through reddit’s weird bitcoiner panhandling culture. She’s left with the equivalent of sixteen dollars. If this is a success, I’d hate to see what a failure would entail.

Posted by joshnorris14
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
47213 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 6:04 pm to
This article is terrible and riddled with lies.

quote:

since the Mt.Gox is awful and legitimate banks won’t allow funds to be transferred to a shady Japanese “business.”


bullshite. I funded my Mt Gox account through Bank of America.

quote:

Thanks to Bitcoin, she is now living in a slightly renovated crackhouse,


Incorrect, this is thanks to her own ignorance. You can pay bills with bitcoin through proxy services.
Posted by ZereauxSum
Lot 23E
Member since Nov 2008
10176 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 6:11 pm to
quote:

You can pay bills with bitcoin through proxy services


Wouldn't that be cheating?

Haven't read the whole article yet
Posted by Vols&Shaft83
Throbbing Member
Member since Dec 2012
70096 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 6:13 pm to
From Kashmir's own words:

quote:

It’s Sunday morning. I have only two days left of living on Bitcoin. I can see the US-minted light at the end of the tunnel, but the end of my week is going to be an adventure. My landlord didn’t want to take Bitcoin for rent. Understandably. I think she’d be similarly put off if I offered to pay the rent in Starbucks gift cards or in the form of a week’s supply of succulents (which are all the planting rage in San Francisco). She’s willing to accept the rent late when I’m back to using greenbacks after the week is up, but that’s a time-traveling violation of my rule for this experiment: all transactions must happen in Bitcoin.



quote:

I return to my beautiful, new-construction condo in the Mission to pack a bag with clothes and food – including my BitcoinCoffee.com delivery which has finally come — and vacate the premises. I ride my bike just under a mile to the corner of 20th and Mission and meet Jered Kenna, co-founder of 20 Mission, one of two hostels in San Francisco that take Bitcoins (the other one never responded to an email I sent them). Kenna unlocks a barred door next to the T-Mobile store on 20th Street to a bicycle-choked staircase that leads to the second-floor “halfway hacker house.” He tells me he took over the space 14 months earlier and convinced the landlord to let him live in it for 9 months rent-free while he and his childhood friend, Jeff, cleaned the place up. “We think it was basically a crackhouse,” says Jered. “We were sweeping hypodermic needles off the floors.” 20 Mission's hallways are still a work in progress It is still a work in progress; it’s half hostel/ half construction site. It’s a big square space with rooms on both sides of the hallway. “If you get lost, just keep walking straight and you’ll eventually come back around to where you want to be,” says Jered. There are ladders in the hallway. An industrial vacuum. There are a few holes in the ceiling. The unfinished wooden floors are paint-splattered. Three dogs chase each other through the halls. My room and the room next door. I'm living in the one on the right. Thirty-eight of the forty rooms are completely livable, though. I get a room with green walls, a full bed, bunk beds and a half bath – it is the only room with its own toilet; I usually brush off special treatment given to journalists but I accept this one gratefully. The room next to mine is in worse shape, knee-deep with crushed cardboard boxes and the remnants of construction projects. The two communal showers are shared by the almost forty people staying here – a mix of hackers, travelers from Europe, and at least one CEO from a Y-Combinator backed company. 20 Mission perk: fresh eggs Jered and Jeff take me up to the gravely rooftop. There are five chickens roosting there. The two entrepreneurial friends from Oregon tell me about the time the police raided the building because they thought those inside were squatters. Jered was wearing a suit at the time, just having come home from his day job as a Bitcoin trader, but the cops were skeptical until the building’s owner came to attest to their right to be there. 20 Mission has had no problem filling its vacancies; anyone who has tried to find a place to live in San Francisco will not be surprised to hear this. They’ve had people living there since the very beginning, though they only got hot water six months ago. We agree on a rate of 1 BTC for my stay. I am one of four people currently paying in Bitcoin, says Jered. He pops up a QR code on his phone; I scan it and transfer 1 BTC (valued at $114 USD at the time) to him. My dinner in the 20 Mission kitchen As with most nights while living on Bitcoin, I’m exhausted by the end of the day. I have an artisanal mac-and-cheese dinner that just needs to be warmed up in the oven. But the oven at 20 Mission doesn’t have temperature readings on its knob and the room starts to smell faintly of gas when I turn it on, and I get worried (needlessly so, says Jeff when I run into him the next morning). Three of my friends live in a house nearby so I walk over there to warm my meal up. They joke that I need to pay .5 BTC to use their oven.
This post was edited on 5/9/13 at 6:18 pm
Posted by gizmoflak
Member since May 2007
11858 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 6:20 pm to
I can't wait until he repeats this experiment in about a year or two from now
Posted by Vols&Shaft83
Throbbing Member
Member since Dec 2012
70096 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 6:22 pm to
quote:

This article is terrible and riddled with lies.


Name 1 lie. Besides the tongue in cheek statement:
quote:

since the Mt.Gox is awful and legitimate banks won’t allow funds to be transferred to a shady Japanese “business.”


Name one lie in the entire OP.
quote:

Incorrect, this is thanks to her own ignorance. You can pay bills with bitcoin through proxy services.



Transactions must be made in bitcoin DIPSHIT
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
135058 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 6:22 pm to
quote:

You can pay bills with bitcoin through proxy services

Don't proxy services convert the btc into the local currency and then pay the vendor in that local currency?

If so, then he would not be paying in bitcoins.
Posted by Vols&Shaft83
Throbbing Member
Member since Dec 2012
70096 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 6:23 pm to
quote:

I can't wait until he repeats this experiment in about a year or two from now


It's a she, and if I was drunk, IWHI
Posted by Vols&Shaft83
Throbbing Member
Member since Dec 2012
70096 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 6:29 pm to
This is Kashmir Hill



Posted by joshnorris14
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
47213 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 6:33 pm to
quote:

Transactions must be made in bitcoin DIPSHIT


Right, if I had no cash at all, only bitcoin, I could pay my rent in bitcoin through Bill Pay for Coins
Posted by ZereauxSum
Lot 23E
Member since Nov 2008
10176 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 6:39 pm to
I think Vol's point is that ultimately the vendor would be paid with dollars, which defeats the purpose of this experiment.
Posted by Vols&Shaft83
Throbbing Member
Member since Dec 2012
70096 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 6:48 pm to
quote:

Right, if I had no cash at all, only bitcoin, I could pay my rent in bitcoin through Bill Pay for Coins



First of all, no you couldn't. Bill pay for coins is still in Beta. So unless you are in the beta trials, you are full of shite.

Secondly, even if you could use that service, you're gonna pay a transaction fee:
quote:

We are starting our second beta trials, with a flat fee of 1.99%.

Where I live, the average monthly rent is around $1200/Month for a decent 1 Bedroom. So this service would cost you an additional $23.88/Month, if you can even use it.

Finally, there's this little problem:
quote:

Exchange rates are calculated based on the current rates at the time of payment by Bitpay.
So you really have no idea what your rent is actually going to cost until after Bitpay cuts a check to your landlord. PRETTY MOTHER frickING INCONVENIENT, DONTCHA THINK? DIPSHIT
This post was edited on 5/9/13 at 6:52 pm
Posted by Vols&Shaft83
Throbbing Member
Member since Dec 2012
70096 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 6:50 pm to
quote:

I think Vol's point is that ultimately the vendor would be paid with dollars


That was one of my points, but Josh is full of shite about his "Proxy Service", it's not even out of BETA testing yet.
Posted by gizmoflak
Member since May 2007
11858 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 6:54 pm to
That's a lotta haterade you serving up, Vols


Just admit you're jelly of all the bitcoinaires out there sitting on a pile of e-gold
Posted by Vols&Shaft83
Throbbing Member
Member since Dec 2012
70096 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 7:16 pm to
quote:

That's a lotta haterade you serving up, Vols




Just bringing truth to the masses.


quote:

Just admit you're jelly of all the bitcoinaires out there sitting on a pile of e-gold



I, Warren Buffet and Charlie Munger own a combined 0 Bitcoins. I'm ok with this
Posted by ZereauxSum
Lot 23E
Member since Nov 2008
10176 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 7:24 pm to
quote:

it's not even out of BETA testing yet.


Kind of like bitcoin itself
Posted by Vols&Shaft83
Throbbing Member
Member since Dec 2012
70096 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 7:34 pm to
Sucks that Wiki is on hiatus this week, Josh is not a worthy opponent.
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
135058 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 7:38 pm to
quote:

That's a lotta haterade you serving up, Vols

It's called " frustration."

It gets tiresome reading josh's ignorant posts where he either doesn't understand what point he is arguing against or he pretends to be too stupid to understand.

Sort of like YOU come to think of it.....
Posted by Lsut81
Member since Jun 2005
85299 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 7:40 pm to
quote:

Vols&Shaft83


Love ya bro, but you're fricking dumb for wasting your time actually researching and putting effort into this...

Nothing you say or do is going to change their minds. You'd be better served sitting on your hand for 30 min and then giving yourself a stranger.

Posted by bamafan425
Jackson's Hole
Member since Jan 2009
25716 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 7:42 pm to
Only reason I lurk on the Money Talk board is for bitcoin threads.

They are like those gossip magazines that people read for me. Perfect reading for taking a big dump.

Carry on.
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