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Started By
Message
re: Cash For Clunkers...
Posted on 8/19/09 at 10:12 am to Martavius
Posted on 8/19/09 at 10:12 am to Martavius
quote:
I thought the feds released a statement saying this was not in accordance with the rules of the program.
So as a dealer - would you just blindly trust that you will be reimbursed for the 4500 per car?
Just think of the PR clusterfrick this may cause IF a dealer decided to go after the buyer for the money
This post was edited on 8/19/09 at 10:13 am
3
Posted on 8/19/09 at 10:21 am to Bubba Bexley
quote:This could get interesting!
The Department of Transportation explicitly states that buyers are under no obligation to sign such agreements.
Posted on 8/19/09 at 10:25 am to LSURussian
quote:
This could get interesting!
Yes it could.
To the OP, if you go through with the deal, read the paperwork and be sure you DON'T sign one of these.
Posted on 8/19/09 at 10:33 am to threeputt
quote:
So as a dealer - would you just blindly trust that you will be reimbursed for the 4500 per car?
As an informed consumer, I'd tell the dealer to go frick himself if presented with this waiver and walk away if they refuse to complete the transaction without it.
Then they get zero of my dollars as opposed to X - 4,500.
This post was edited on 8/19/09 at 10:34 am
Posted on 8/19/09 at 10:35 am to Martavius
quote:
As an informed consumer, I'd tell the dealer to go frick himself if presented with this waiver and walk away if they refuse to complete the transaction without it.
I agree. But that was not the question. How would handle this as a dealer?
This post was edited on 8/19/09 at 10:43 am
Posted on 8/19/09 at 10:57 am to Martavius
quote:Sounds good to me. That means you don't buy a new car and the dealer doesn't sell one....
I'd tell the dealer to go frick himself if presented with this waiver and walk away if they refuse to complete the transaction without it.
Posted on 8/19/09 at 11:06 am to threeputt
quote:
How would handle this as a dealer?
Depends on the particulars of each dealership, but I would either:
A. Don't participate if I am afraid the funds won't come and I can't afford the risk.
or
B. Participate and assume the contract I make with the government will be honored, and convince myself any risk is outweighed by the additional business being brought in by the program.
Posted on 8/19/09 at 11:14 am to threeputt
quote:The talking head on CNN this morning basically said that if a dealer tries to get you to sign such a form, give him the finger and walk out.
Talked to a dealer friend yesterday who is waiting for payments for around 20 cars. According to him the buyer signs a note for the 4500 that is voided when they recieve the monies from the federal program. So if the money does not come through - the buyer is on the hook for it.
FWIW the odds of the federal gov't defaulting on this program are exceptionally low. The dealers are trying to get you to sign this form to cover their own frickups - like if they don't fill out the paperwork right, or sell you a car that they later find out wasn't actually covered.
This post was edited on 8/19/09 at 11:16 am
Posted on 8/19/09 at 12:17 pm to Cold Cous Cous
quote:
the federal gov't defaulting on this program are exceptionally low.
Definitely, strictly considering all the political aspects surrounding this situation...I'd give defaulting on this program a 0% chance.
Back to this guy's question...
a $200 car payment is not a fantasy it just limits what you can buy, obviously.
$8,000 4 year car loan at 8% is $195 a month payment.
My logic maybe a little flawed, but you could get a new car worth about 8,000+4,500 = 12,500
Posted on 8/19/09 at 12:28 pm to BaylorTiger
So there is a possible scam after all??
Hmmmmmmm....
That's all I needed to know.
frick em then
Hmmmmmmm....
That's all I needed to know.
frick em then
Posted on 8/19/09 at 12:37 pm to threeputt
quote:
So as a dealer - would you just blindly trust that you will be reimbursed for the 4500 per car?
Yep that's it. Dealers aren't happy about it at all.
Posted on 8/19/09 at 12:37 pm to justinnevils
You can possibly get scammed by answering the telephone. Doesn't mean you shouldn't answer it if it rings.
Posted on 8/19/09 at 12:41 pm to BaylorTiger
quote:
Definitely, strictly considering all the political aspects surrounding this situation...I'd give defaulting on this program a 0% chance.
The issue is that they are changing the rules for the program day by day. True the government won't "default", but they can simply deny any of the 'claims' for not following any of the new rules that change every day.
Bureaucrat to Dealer: Sorry Mr. Dealer, you didn't cross the T on page 18 of your rebate submission form so the rebate was declined.
Dealer: But I already passed the $4500 rebate on to my customer and gave them credit for it.
Bureaucrat: Oh well, not my problem.
Posted on 8/19/09 at 12:45 pm to MikeBRLA
quote:
The issue is that they are changing the rules for the program day by day. True the government won't "default", but they can simply deny any of the 'claims' for not following any of the new rules that change every day.
Bureaucrat to Dealer: Sorry Mr. Dealer, you didn't cross the T on page 18 of your rebate submission form so the rebate was declined.
I don't see this happening either. I'd say the biggest danger to dealerships is lengthy processing time of reimbursments that severely restrict cash flow which will affect their ability to make payroll, purchase inventory and parts, etc.
Posted on 8/19/09 at 1:02 pm to Martavius
C4C has gone so well, I can't wait until the government funds my healthcare. I'm sure there will be no problems reimbursing doctors and hospitals.
Posted on 8/19/09 at 1:03 pm to Martavius
I have my doubts that an '98 s-10 would get the 18mpg average or under that's required. You can check the gov't website to find out though.
Posted on 8/19/09 at 1:52 pm to thelawisafterme
quote:
I have my doubts that an '98 s-10 would get the 18mpg average or under that's required.
Depends on the motor (4 or 6).
Interesting notes from the cars.gov site:
quote:
In response to overwhelming interest in the CARS program, NHTSA has clarified that consumers who want to purchase new vehicles not yet on dealer lots can still be eligible for the CARS program. Dealers and consumers who have reached a valid purchase and sale agreement on a vehicle already in the production pipeline will be able to work with the manufacturer to receive the documentation needed to qualify for the program.
quote:
We’ve heard that dealers are asking consumers to sign agreements with contingencies when they participate in the CARS program.
CONSUMERS ARE NOT REQUIRED TO SIGN CONTINGENCY AGREEMENTS TO PAY BACK THE DEALER SHOULD THE CARS CREDIT BE REJECTED.
We’ve also heard that dealers are asking consumers to keep their “clunker” until the deal is approved by NHTSA.
IF THE DEALER HAS THE NEW CAR IN STOCK, THE DEALER MUST ALLOW YOU TO TAKE POSSESSION OF THE NEW CAR BEFORE THE DEALER MAY SUBMIT THE CREDIT APPLICATION TO THE GOVERNMENT. PLEASE REPORT ANY DEALER TO NHTSA THAT DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO TAKE POSSESSION OF A NEW CAR PURCHASED UNDER THE CARS PROGRAM. PLEASE CALL THE CARS HOTLINE AT (866)-CAR-7891.
quote:
In conjunction with the CARS final rule, EPA updated fuel economy data on fueleconomy.gov on July 24th. The changes affected the eligibility of certain vehicles under the CARS program.
Of the 30,000 vehicle model types spanning 25 years, 78 cars no longer qualify, but 86 new vehicles are now eligible.
NHTSA will process transactions in accordance with the data on fueleconomy.gov. The 78 vehicle model types that were eligible under EPA's mileage criteria until EPA's revisions were issued on July 24th will continue to be considered as eligible for transactions that occurred on or before July 24th.
The 86 model types that became eligible on July 24th will be treated as eligible if they are part of sale or lease that occurred on or after July 24th.
Posted on 8/19/09 at 4:20 pm to threeputt
quote:
So as a dealer - would you just blindly trust that you will be reimbursed for the 4500 per car?
either that, or dont participate in the program and let every other dealer but yours sell cars
Posted on 8/19/09 at 4:24 pm to Bubba Bexley
quote:
CONSUMERS ARE NOT REQUIRED TO SIGN CONTINGENCY AGREEMENTS TO PAY BACK THE DEALER SHOULD THE CARS CREDIT BE REJECTED.
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