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re: Why You Can't "Stack the Box" vs. Auburn (with graphics/pics)
Posted on 10/27/10 at 4:05 pm to igoringa
Posted on 10/27/10 at 4:05 pm to igoringa
quote:
6 plays covering about 300 yards is not a slow death to me. A 50 yard run is no less painful then a 50 yard pass.
Did you just make this number up?
They had a 49 yard run.
They had a 70 yard run.
They had a 29 yard run.
Every other play was sub 20 yards.
Majority of those were sub 15 yards.
And most of them were sub 10 yards.
They hit three big plays on us.
1
Posted on 10/27/10 at 4:05 pm to SlowFlowPro
All I know is if OBUDan's theory is correct, then Auburn has found the first completely unbeatable offense of all time. I'm gonna stick to my theory that we played the wrong scheme.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 4:09 pm to SlowFlowPro
I would like to know which of you in this debate has coached football before.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 4:09 pm to jwill37
quote:
All I know is if OBUDan's theory is correct, then Auburn has found the first completely unbeatable offense of all time.
It's so cute when you guys say this stuff.
quote:
I'm gonna stick to my theory that we played the wrong scheme.
Enlighten me to your scheme. Does it account for people not tackling or playing proper technique?
Posted on 10/27/10 at 4:10 pm to jwill37
quote:
All I know is if OBUDan's theory is correct, then Auburn has found the first completely unbeatable offense of all time. I'm gonna stick to my theory that we played the wrong scheme.
Can't possibly be either
A: You just got beat by a better team that executed better
or
B: Your guys failed to execute a good scheme
or (best answer IMO)
C: Combo of both
Has to be scheme?
Posted on 10/27/10 at 4:12 pm to PiscesTiger
quote:
I would like to know which of you in this debate has coached football before.
Do you have to coach to know? (I don't mean that in a smart arse way.)
I played, didn't coach.
I don't pretend to be a coach or have all the answers. If people ask me questions, I answer them the best I can.
I enjoy reading/learning about the stuff as a hobby. I've learned a lot this season and have watched and rewatched every LSU game 3 times at least (as I'm sure many others have). I enjoy going on different websites and continuing to learn and hope to buy some books to learn more... just because I enjoy it.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 4:13 pm to Doc Fenton
This THREAD is worse than name dropping...saying things like, "Bring a weak corner blitz and drop a LB into zone blitz coverage." Wow, some of you just are sooooo smart and are defensibe gurus. You'd probably be the same types to run a 4-3 in middle school based on the college films and Madden you've played. 
Posted on 10/27/10 at 4:14 pm to OBUDan
Man you've been on here the last couple days. Get some sleep bro. Some of us have jobs and are trying to be productive. I would imagine there are probably many professional folks that frequent this board who would make much better coaches than the ones doing it full time at lsu right now. The better schemes have been pointed out for you over and over. You're just not willing to admit you're wrong. I'm gonna go back to my life now. Thanks for your time.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 4:14 pm to PiscesTiger
I've coached some, coach now, but not at the college level. I simply study Xs and Os, and talk to coaches about this stuff a lot. Like OBU said, I make it a hobby to study, not merely watch games, but look at film and video, and discuss it on coaching sites, and with other coaches in person.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 4:16 pm to Buck Sweep
quote:
Can't possibly be either
A: You just got beat by a better team that executed better
or
B: Your guys failed to execute a good scheme
or (best answer IMO)
C: Combo of both
Has to be scheme?
This is what blows my mind. Could be a bit of all but some hardcore negative myopic haters want to pin it on Chavis (the coaching staffs failure) True comedy.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 4:19 pm to PiscesTiger
quote:
This THREAD is worse than name dropping...saying things like, "Bring a weak corner blitz and drop a LB into zone blitz coverage." Wow, some of you just are sooooo smart and are defensibe gurus. You'd probably be the same types to run a 4-3 in middle school based on the college films and Madden you've played.
This is generally the type of response that you find when someone does know something, and you can't do anything else but call them a "know it all" or something along those lines.
Here's my take...forget any experience I may or may not have in actual football. I watch as much as anybody else, and I have an opinion. How's that?
Posted on 10/27/10 at 4:19 pm to jwill37
quote:
jwill37
It's a board for discussion. This thread actually has legitimate discussion, of which you have obviously nothing to bring to the table but to pop in, tell me I'm wrong and leave.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 4:20 pm to OBUDan
Not necessarily, Dan, and this wasn't aimed at you directly. You brought up a somewhat valid point in the first post. It's more comical reading the retorts as to why you're wrong.
The thing is, even if you have coached, you didn't coach against a player of the magnitude of Cam Newton. It would be just like 6 years ago or so, someone trying to explain why you shouldn't "bring the ends upfield" against WVU and White and Slaton. You cannot defend an offense the same way just because of the way they lineup. Percentages tell you otherwise, but when you face a once in a lifetime athlete, you just can't do much at all. Once upon a time, we tried to stop an Evangel squad and our only chance of keeping them below 30 points was to change defenses every single time and do unorthodox formations, drops, blitzes...hell, we lined up against them and started naming our coverages after city zip codes because we'd drop 9 into coverage. With Newton, the nickel was successful a time or two as it bought our line some time...only trouble is we didn't win that war against their o -line and we couldn't tackle. When you don't tackle, it doesn't matter.
The thing is, even if you have coached, you didn't coach against a player of the magnitude of Cam Newton. It would be just like 6 years ago or so, someone trying to explain why you shouldn't "bring the ends upfield" against WVU and White and Slaton. You cannot defend an offense the same way just because of the way they lineup. Percentages tell you otherwise, but when you face a once in a lifetime athlete, you just can't do much at all. Once upon a time, we tried to stop an Evangel squad and our only chance of keeping them below 30 points was to change defenses every single time and do unorthodox formations, drops, blitzes...hell, we lined up against them and started naming our coverages after city zip codes because we'd drop 9 into coverage.
With Newton, the nickel was successful a time or two as it bought our line some time...only trouble is we didn't win that war against their o -line and we couldn't tackle. When you don't tackle, it doesn't matter.Posted on 10/27/10 at 4:21 pm to Buck Sweep
Point taken Buck, because you HAVE coached and so then you know that studying film is one thing and then having to make a decision in an actual game based on not just film, but real time down and distance and situation is TOTALLY different. You can at least acknowledge that.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 4:22 pm to jwill37
quote:
Man you've been on here the last couple days. Get some sleep bro. Some of us have jobs and are trying to be productive. I would imagine there are probably many professional folks that frequent this board who would make much better coaches than the ones doing it full time at lsu right now. The better schemes have been pointed out for you over and over. You're just not willing to admit you're wrong. I'm gonna go back to my life now. Thanks for your time.
That is the kind of shite that is funny as hell. Fans would make better coaches. And damned if there's some folks that have never coached a game at any level that believe that they could do a better job at something they've never done than guys who have combined decades of experience. That friggin' blows my mind that people think that way.
And if you've got a professional job, and need to be working at it, then get to it! Or you go get some sleep. Why are you here?
Better scheme's pointed out? Where, by who?
Posted on 10/27/10 at 4:26 pm to PiscesTiger
quote:
Point taken Buck, because you HAVE coached and so then you know that studying film is one thing and then having to make a decision in an actual game based on not just film, but real time down and distance and situation is TOTALLY different. You can at least acknowledge that.
Hell yeah! Everybody has a plan, 'til they get hit in the mouth!
I said it earlier...I don't know what would have worked. And from another here that has watched the game on film and other's who said they listened to post game interview...they did try some of the things the fans say here...they got burned. I can assure you this. NO Def. Coord. worth his salt is going to run Cover 0 every single play. Nobody is going to put their CBs, or worse Nickles on an island every play to sell out and stop the run against a team that can throw the ball like Auburn.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 4:29 pm to PiscesTiger
quote:
With Newton, the nickel was successful a time or two as it bought our line some time...only trouble is we didn't win that war against their o -line and we couldn't tackle. When you don't tackle, it doesn't matter.
That pretty much says it all. Scheme be damned if you don't execute it, whether by lack of talent, or poor play.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 4:30 pm to Buck Sweep
quote:
Trout, I'm going to say this again. What other coaches do to Auburn's offense isn't relevant to what LSU did. In 2008 Ole Miss held Florida to 30 points in their upset win. They were the 20th ranked scoring defense in the country. Alabama held Florida to 31 in the SECCG, and they were the #7 scoring defense in the country.
Conversely in those same games Florida was the #4 Scoring defense and gave up 31 to Ole Miss who was the 32nd scroring offense, and yet only 20 to Bama who had the #7 scoring offense.
None of that makes sense when you compare the scores to how "good" their offenses or defense were.
Every coach has a different plan, and different skill sets to work with. Sometimes you may not have the best overall defense, yet have a particular player that matches up well in the scheme you want to employ. And, sometimes, you have a good scheme, yet don't have the right skill set to make it work, even though you may have good overall talent.
It's more about matchups and players than any scheme.
Been in meetings so I have lost touch with this discussion. And barely had time to read this before replying my question is when coachs watch game film on opponents do they watch film to see what has been effective against that teams offense and defense or do they say "we are a different team with different players so we better come up with a new and different way to stop them" doesn't matter if opponent struggled on 5 out of 6 gamefilms vs. blitzes or what have you.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 4:31 pm to Buck Sweep
quote:
Can't possibly be either
A: You just got beat by a better team that executed better
or
B: Your guys failed to execute a good scheme
or (best answer IMO)
C: Combo of both
Has to be scheme?
Shoot me in the freaking head right now... I agree with you. Auburn was/is the better team and they dramatically executed better. I still had problems with the scheme though.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 4:33 pm to PiscesTiger
quote:
The thing is, even if you have coached, you didn't coach against a player of the magnitude of Cam Newton. It would be just like 6 years ago or so, someone trying to explain why you shouldn't "bring the ends upfield" against WVU and White and Slaton. You cannot defend an offense the same way just because of the way they lineup. Percentages tell you otherwise, but when you face a once in a lifetime athlete, you just can't do much at all. Once upon a time, we tried to stop an Evangel squad and our only chance of keeping them below 30 points was to change defenses every single time and do unorthodox formations, drops, blitzes...hell, we lined up against them and started naming our coverages after city zip codes because we'd drop 9 into coverage. With Newton, the nickel was successful a time or two as it bought our line some time...only trouble is we didn't win that war against their o -line and we couldn't tackle. When you don't tackle, it doesn't matter.
I share these sentiments and probably haven't done a very good job of making them clear throughout the thread.
It's just a tough thing to stop. There's no one set way to do it. I think the Auburn offense is maturing in a wild animal and defenses are still trying to figure out exactly how to stop them.
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