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re: Why You Can't "Stack the Box" vs. Auburn (with graphics/pics)
Posted on 10/27/10 at 10:22 am to Camp Randall
Posted on 10/27/10 at 10:22 am to Camp Randall
quote:
You might support him but may here unbelieveably don't now
Well that to me would be ignorant.
quote:
If we had a halfway decent offensive gameplan (or offense period) we would have won.
Newton was a fricking manbeast that game. Sometimes you get beat.
i completely agree
0
Posted on 10/27/10 at 10:23 am to TigerJeff
quote:
So you're saying there's no way to stop the vaunted Auburn offense. Why even show up and play the game?
You got me. That's exactly what I said.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 10:39 am to Topwater Trout
quote:
I am talking about playing aggressive and dictating more to the offenses(which is our style). We have played different types of offenses and still maintained an aggressive mentality until auburn...and got demolished.
You and others keep saying this, but I have a feeling it has more to do with the outcome than what actually transpired on the field.
I didn't get the sense that we weren't "aggressive" schematically. Or at least not any less than we needed to be, but Auburn does a lot to teams to take them out of that position and I think you undervalue that.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 11:50 am to OBUDan
quote:
I didn't get the sense that we weren't "aggressive" schematically. Or at least not any less than we needed to be, but Auburn does a lot to teams to take them out of that position and I think you undervalue that.
It wasn't the first spread offense LSU has played.
LSU flat out has better defensive talent than ole miss.....so tell me will Auburn be as successful against the rebs?
If ole miss comes out and shoots the gaps and brings pressure and shuts the Auburn offense down will your arguement still be legitimate?
I highly doubt Auburns offense will dominate any team the rest of the way like they did LSU.
This post was edited on 10/27/10 at 11:54 am
Posted on 10/27/10 at 12:09 pm to Topwater Trout
quote:
LSU flat out has better defensive talent than ole miss.....so tell me will Auburn be as successful against the rebs?
Such a relative thing.
Will they go for 440 yards rushing? Probably not.
But I'd be willing to bet anything they score more points.
But if they go for less rushing yards you'll just say, "see I told you." Even though points is the end game...
quote:
If ole miss comes out and shoots the gaps and brings pressure and shuts the Auburn offense down will your arguement still be legitimate?
The only chance anyone, much less Ole Miss, has of shutting down Auburn's offense right now is if they play a let down game.
I'll watch the game closely. I'll be glad to comeback to this thread.
If Auburn plays poorly you'll say it's because Ole Miss "dictated" or whatever. There's really no point in having this argument, because you've already made up your mind and will see what you want to see.
I'm about to re-watch the LSU game, I'll come back later and post some more thoughts of what I think our defense did. If I re-watch and see all this "contain" and "lack of aggressive" you guys keep saying, I'll gladly eat crow.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 12:10 pm to Buck Sweep
after reading this entire thread (which is one of the best ive seen on here) i think the "coaching and decisions" came down to this
we relied on Athletic ability on defense and tried to pull it out in the end with field position and a sporatic offensive ending...(which has been done twice this year, Fl and Tenn)...
This is a prime example of players winning and coaches losing (ex. Miles coaching career) he left it on the shoulders of the players to win that game, he didnt go after the win as a coach.
quote:
Also, it's not like it was every a huge lead...if you're going to risk big plays...I think it's not stupid coaching to risk them on the ground instad of through the air, especially since Auburn has shown the ability to strike quick through the air.
we relied on Athletic ability on defense and tried to pull it out in the end with field position and a sporatic offensive ending...(which has been done twice this year, Fl and Tenn)...
This is a prime example of players winning and coaches losing (ex. Miles coaching career) he left it on the shoulders of the players to win that game, he didnt go after the win as a coach.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 12:14 pm to OBUDan
quote:
There's really no point in having this argument, because you've already made up your mind and will see what you want to see.
we are both
b/c neither of us think our opinions are wrong. as far as points LSU put Auburn in terrible field position throughout the game so that is relative to points allowed. It will show on the field how other teams handle the Auburn offense but unless they pin Auburn inside the 5 three times you cant really compare points allowed.
This post was edited on 10/27/10 at 12:17 pm
Posted on 10/27/10 at 12:23 pm to OBUDan
Chavis Pre-week quote:
``We're going to try to put more (defenders close to the line of scrimmage) than they can block,'' Chavis said. ``I don't know if it's going to be possible this week, but that's what we're going to try to do. Hopefully we'll dare them to throw it. Maybe we can get them to throw it about 50 times.''
We never did this (it would have involved walking the safety up).
``He waits for holes to be open. Our job is just to sit there, control the line of scrimmage and just be patient,'' LSU defensive tackle Lazarius ``Pep'' Levingston said. ``He's a patient runner, so we just got to stay in our gaps at all times.''
Yes.... absolutely no talk of containment/patience and not being overaggressive
``We're going to try to put more (defenders close to the line of scrimmage) than they can block,'' Chavis said. ``I don't know if it's going to be possible this week, but that's what we're going to try to do. Hopefully we'll dare them to throw it. Maybe we can get them to throw it about 50 times.''
We never did this (it would have involved walking the safety up).
``He waits for holes to be open. Our job is just to sit there, control the line of scrimmage and just be patient,'' LSU defensive tackle Lazarius ``Pep'' Levingston said. ``He's a patient runner, so we just got to stay in our gaps at all times.''
Yes.... absolutely no talk of containment/patience and not being overaggressive
Posted on 10/27/10 at 12:24 pm to Topwater Trout
quote:
as far as points LSU put Auburn in terrible field position throughout the game so that is relative to points allowed. It will show on the field how other teams handle the Auburn offense but unless they pin Auburn inside the 5 three times you cant really compare points allowed.
Vice versa, by pinning them so deep we gave them more opportunities to pick up more yardage.
Also, you can't account for the fact that the Ole Miss offense will likely do a much better job of actually staying on the field and not forcing their defense to go back out repeatedly every 2 minutes.
Which is why I think it's pointless to compare one game to the other...
Posted on 10/27/10 at 12:29 pm to OBUDan
quote:
Vice versa, by pinning them so deep we gave them more opportunities to pick up more yardage.
I would bet you drives starting in the shadow of your goaline traditionally result in less yards then drives from, lets say, outside the 20.
The 'benefit' of 97 yards of possible yardage is more then mitigated by freaking taking snaps in your endzone. Cmon man.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 12:39 pm to igoringa
quote:
I would bet you drives starting in the shadow of your goaline traditionally result in less yards then drives from, lets say, outside the 20.
Regardless, there's more space to pick up yards.
That's incontrovertible fact.
Re-watching the game now... first series gave no indication of this "lack of aggression" you guys keep espousing.
-Drake shot up the field on two plays.
-Mingo played a standing DE role and speed rushed around the end.
-Baker came around hard came off of coverage and crashed hard on Newton to make a superb stop.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 12:48 pm to OBUDan
quote:
Re-watching the game now... first series gave no indication of this "lack of aggression" you guys keep espousing.
-Drake shot up the field on two plays.
-Mingo played a standing DE role and speed rushed around the end.
-Baker came around hard came off of coverage and crashed hard on Newton to make a superb stop.
and LSU forced a punt. The lack of agression will show from here on out
Posted on 10/27/10 at 12:52 pm to Topwater Trout
Trout, I'm going to say this again. What other coaches do to Auburn's offense isn't relevant to what LSU did. In 2008 Ole Miss held Florida to 30 points in their upset win. They were the 20th ranked scoring defense in the country. Alabama held Florida to 31 in the SECCG, and they were the #7 scoring defense in the country.
Conversely in those same games Florida was the #4 Scoring defense and gave up 31 to Ole Miss who was the 32nd scroring offense, and yet only 20 to Bama who had the #7 scoring offense.
None of that makes sense when you compare the scores to how "good" their offenses or defense were.
Every coach has a different plan, and different skill sets to work with. Sometimes you may not have the best overall defense, yet have a particular player that matches up well in the scheme you want to employ. And, sometimes, you have a good scheme, yet don't have the right skill set to make it work, even though you may have good overall talent.
It's more about matchups and players than any scheme.
Conversely in those same games Florida was the #4 Scoring defense and gave up 31 to Ole Miss who was the 32nd scroring offense, and yet only 20 to Bama who had the #7 scoring offense.
None of that makes sense when you compare the scores to how "good" their offenses or defense were.
Every coach has a different plan, and different skill sets to work with. Sometimes you may not have the best overall defense, yet have a particular player that matches up well in the scheme you want to employ. And, sometimes, you have a good scheme, yet don't have the right skill set to make it work, even though you may have good overall talent.
It's more about matchups and players than any scheme.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 1:13 pm to igoringa
quote:
`I don't know if it's going to be possible this week,
Love you curiously ignore the most important part of that quote.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 1:17 pm to Topwater Trout
quote:
and LSU forced a punt. The lack of agression will show from here on out
2nd series
1st play, Adams comes running free with a shot on Newton, doesn't break down, Newton busts free, 10 yard gain, 1st down... All the other lineman shot forward aggressively and were soundly blocked and driven backwards.
2nd play, lineman surge forward again.. once again well blocked. Once again another DE unblocked... Mingo athletically dodges the cut block and then overpursues the reverse which is then ripped for 12 yards....
Still waiting... do you have a minute mark when we suddenly decided we were just gonna stand up at the line of scrimmage and watch?
Posted on 10/27/10 at 1:18 pm to Buck Sweep
quote:
It's more about matchups and players than any scheme.
I don't understand why people don't get this...
Posted on 10/27/10 at 1:34 pm to OBUDan
quote:
I don't understand why people don't get this...
I could tell you why, but I don't want to flame.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 1:40 pm to Buck Sweep
Ooooh! I found a good one. This play does exactly as they all crave... walked the safety up! The result: Michael Dyer 16 yard run that put you guys at the one. Let me get this screen shot for everyone.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 1:54 pm to OBUDan
As you can see pretty clearly, we walk Karnell Hatcher up on the play, into the box.
Baker is filling the 3 and 4 gaps, thus giving us a 5 man line look. Nevis gets double teamed by the C and RG, but he is trying to shoot up field. Pep is handled easily by the RT. Adams is left unblocked by the line, but accounted for by Lutzenkirchen. Baker is easily pushed inside by the LG. The Ziemba drives Lavar Edwards out of the play.
If read properly the safety or KShepp should have crashed that hole. Instead, they both hesitate to honor Newton keeper and Dyer hits a huge hole.
Oh and Hatcher was successfully cracked back... he fell right into the blocking scheme.
This post was edited on 10/27/10 at 1:55 pm
Posted on 10/27/10 at 2:24 pm to OBUDan
Are you watching this video online?
This is a little "twist" we've done this year. This personnel set and look last year would have been a Counter GB play, with Lutzenkirchen and a pulling G going to the right side. Instead, what they run here is a simple old divide flow zone play. Zone blocking? Good for picking up blitzes and stunts! Lutz goes to pick up the backside DE, and the OL zones left, and Dyer is simply running a standard zone play, and as far as I can tell, there's no read, it's a straight give.
This is a little "twist" we've done this year. This personnel set and look last year would have been a Counter GB play, with Lutzenkirchen and a pulling G going to the right side. Instead, what they run here is a simple old divide flow zone play. Zone blocking? Good for picking up blitzes and stunts! Lutz goes to pick up the backside DE, and the OL zones left, and Dyer is simply running a standard zone play, and as far as I can tell, there's no read, it's a straight give.
This post was edited on 10/27/10 at 2:26 pm
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