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re: Why Does Crowton Need a Dual Type QB?

Posted on 1/28/09 at 1:22 pm to
Posted by GeauxWarrior12
Hammond
Member since Jan 2007
2804 posts
Posted on 1/28/09 at 1:22 pm to
Notice how much more effective JR was when he started running with the ball his junior year.
Posted by Herb
Amite LA
Member since Dec 2003
6528 posts
Posted on 1/28/09 at 1:24 pm to
quote:

But I wanted to hear other opinions on why so many believe Crowton needs a Dual Threat QB and why that is better?
I don't believe that. I believe that you have to fit your offense to your personel. Not your personel to your offense. And, yes guys, I know that is basic.
Posted by King Joey
Just south of the DC/US border
Member since Mar 2004
12722 posts
Posted on 1/28/09 at 1:51 pm to
quote:

i don't think you watched krenzell much
they were all 4.8 guys running around
That's entirely possible. I don't really remember Krenzell being that much of a playmaker either way. I remember him being more of a Jay Barker-type, running the offense and just not making many mistakes while the running game and defense controlled the game. I remember him making some big clutch plays, but not routinely making plays.

Posted by ready4something
virginia beach
Member since Jul 2008
6541 posts
Posted on 1/28/09 at 2:01 pm to
quote:

Notice how much more effective JR was when he started running with the ball his junior year.


So tell me what type of Qb do u all want. JR was criticized for staying in the pocket and not scrambling,,,,JJ on the other hand is criticized for scrambling and not staying in the pocket. Meanwhile, every excuse under the sun is made for Lee throwing 7 pick 6's, 15 ints, and everything else that comes with it. Just give me a qb that manages the game, does not commit mistakes and leads us to a championship.

Posted by specs1
Member since Dec 2005
10015 posts
Posted on 1/28/09 at 2:11 pm to
quote:

JR never played under Crowton FWIW.


Did anyone ever suggest he did?

Posted by King Joey
Just south of the DC/US border
Member since Mar 2004
12722 posts
Posted on 1/28/09 at 2:16 pm to
quote:

But I wanted to hear other opinions on why so many believe Crowton needs a Dual Threat QB and why that is better?
A "Dual Threat" QB is always better if he's able to pass like a pro-style QB and run like a RB. When you take a guy like Tebow or Vick or Perriloux (on a good night) who can do both, it simply opens up more options. But very, very few guys can do both that well. So it is all about a sliding scale: how much passing ability versus how much running ability? And all of it is filtered by whether or not the QB makes good decisions. A mediocre pocket passer with a good head on his shoulders (like Jay Barker) can be worth several super-talented dual threat guys who can't keep their head on straight (like RP). A phenomenal pocket passer with mediocre running ability (like JR) can be better than a phenomenal running QB with just mediocre passing skills. It's different for every QB and every offense. But the bottom line is that there are passing skills and running skills; the more a QB has of either one, the better. So guys who have lots of both (i.e., "dual threat" guys) are usually better than guys who only have a lot of one or the other.

That's not much different that, say, hands and speed for a WR. Each is valuable, so a guy with lots of both is usally better than a guy that only has lots of one.

Posted by ChuckDockery
NOLA
Member since Jan 2005
3088 posts
Posted on 1/28/09 at 10:05 pm to
Mauck 2003--Pro Style, National Championship

Flynn 2007--Pro Style, National Championship

Herb Tyler 95-98, Scrambler, Erratic, inconsistent seasons

Marcus Randall 2004, Scrambler, Erratic, inconsistent season
This post was edited on 1/28/09 at 10:06 pm
Posted by kingmotor
Louisiana
Member since Sep 2007
297 posts
Posted on 1/28/09 at 10:17 pm to
i think the phrase "dual-threat quarterback" is kind of overused. QBs who are great runners, but bad passers get called dual threat all the time when they should actually be called uno threat. i think matt flynn was a true dual threat QB because he was mostly a drop back passer, but you always had to respect the run when he was healthy or he just might break off a big one; and break some ankles in the process.
Posted by kingmotor
Louisiana
Member since Sep 2007
297 posts
Posted on 1/28/09 at 10:20 pm to
quote:

Mauck 2003--Pro Style, National Championship

Flynn 2007--Pro Style, National Championship


both these guys were dual threat QB's. mauck was great at the QB draw. he killed tennessee with his feet in the 01 seccg.
Posted by GeauxWarrior12
Hammond
Member since Jan 2007
2804 posts
Posted on 1/28/09 at 10:22 pm to
quote:

So tell me what type of Qb do u all want. JR was criticized for staying in the pocket and not scrambling,,,,JJ on the other hand is criticized for scrambling and not staying in the pocket. Meanwhile, every excuse under the sun is made for Lee throwing 7 pick 6's, 15 ints, and everything else that comes with it. Just give me a qb that manages the game, does not commit mistakes and leads us to a championship.


I told you. When JR went through his progression and saw no one was open he took off running. Thats when he was at his best. Jeff needs to stay in pocket a little while longer and let things progress, but that will come with experience. He's been way better than I expected so far.
Posted by RobbBobb
Member since Feb 2007
33327 posts
Posted on 1/28/09 at 10:33 pm to
Dual-threat QBs may be losing their luster in coming years.
quote:

Of the 58 quarterbacks to whom Rivals.com assigned a position ranking that year just 17 have started a full season in Division I-A. Many of the dual-threat QBs moved to other positions.

LINK
Posted by Toothpick
Member since Jan 2004
19468 posts
Posted on 1/29/09 at 12:05 am to
Dual threat quarterbacks usually do well in college football but suck in the pros. In the pros you better be able to throw for 300 yards a game and that’s takes a big time arm and accuracy. Personally, I would rather have a mobile pro style quarterback like Sam Bradford at OU.

JJ is a mobile pro style quarterback who I hope has the potential to be as good as Bradford in a couple of years. JL was slower than most of our offensive lineman, had a great arm but couldn’t break the habit of staring down receivers. He’ll probably make a pretty good backup for JJ once he breaks the habit of staring down receivers.

RS should get a shot at quarterback to determine once and for all if his arm can be developed into an NFL caliber arm. If it can’t be developed then he should be switched to becoming an all around versatile do anything kind of player like Percy Harvin to build his NFL stock. Personally, I think that is where his future lies. I can't wait to see him suit up for LSU!
Posted by Toothpick
Member since Jan 2004
19468 posts
Posted on 1/29/09 at 12:09 am to
quote:

We had a pro style qb in Lee and we see how that worked out.


JL and JJ are both pro style quarterbacks. However JL is slow as molasses and JJ is very mobile for a pro style quarterback.



Posted by TigerBandAlumnus82
Pensacola,FL
Member since Jul 2007
3104 posts
Posted on 1/29/09 at 5:42 am to
quote:

Crowton has shown he can make adjustments when he has too, but JL was a fricking statue that locked onto one receiver every play.




What was amazing to me was the fact that JL just kept doing it the entire season right up till he got injured at the end of the season. Never seen that before. Those kind of mistakes are usually corrected by mid-season, but it's as if he was getting no coaching at all. Crowton just couldn't seem to break through that JL Force Field, because it never clicked in his head, nor did he appear to "get it." He looked awfully good in bits and pieces, but would always go brain dead and revert back to forcing the ball into tight coverage. Crowton must have been up in the pressbox losing it with each new pick and P6. Let's see what he's able to do with him in the Spring and Summer, if anything.......
Posted by TheDoc
doc is no more
Member since Dec 2005
99297 posts
Posted on 1/30/09 at 7:58 am to
quote:

tojo


Jarrett,

Shouldn't you be studying the playbook and not playing on a messageboard?
Posted by RobbBobb
Member since Feb 2007
33327 posts
Posted on 1/30/09 at 9:56 am to
quote:

Not many dual threat Quarterbacks do that well in the Sec

Tebow is actually a good example of that. UF won the BCS with Leak, and the next yr allowed Tebow to do his dual threat thing. It won him a Heisman, but allowed for 4 team losses.

This past yr UF, went back to spreading the offense around. Tebows numbers suffered, but UF wins another BCS.

Now Meyer is telling people UF will go to the I-formation to showcase Tebows pro-style abilities?? Seems colleges are relying less and less on the dual threat QB for best results.
Posted by TheDoc
doc is no more
Member since Dec 2005
99297 posts
Posted on 1/30/09 at 10:09 am to
quote:

It won him a Heisman, but allowed for 4 team losses.


tebow played defense that year?

Posted by TheDoc
doc is no more
Member since Dec 2005
99297 posts
Posted on 1/30/09 at 10:10 am to
oh, and meyer is full of shite, like always.
Posted by King Joey
Just south of the DC/US border
Member since Mar 2004
12722 posts
Posted on 1/30/09 at 10:24 am to
quote:

This past yr UF, went back to spreading the offense around. Tebows numbers suffered, but UF wins another BCS.
Florida did spread it around more than in 2007, and he certainly did not put up the scoring numbers he did in '07, but Tebow was most decidedly a dual-threat QB in 2008. In a far truer sense of the word than any Rivals/Scout/whoever recruiting classification.

Posted by RobbBobb
Member since Feb 2007
33327 posts
Posted on 1/30/09 at 11:15 am to
quote:

but Tebow was most decidedly a dual-threat QB in 2008

Not saying he wasnt. But even with UF playing one more game this yr, Tebow had 52 less pass att, and 34 less runs.

So about 90 times this yr UF did not give their dual-threat QB the option to be either dual or a threat. Someone else got the call, and it paid off with another BCS.

Great teams appear to be relying less on their QBs to run. Could be due to injuries???
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