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re: Who was LSU's last "freak" (athlete)?
Posted on 8/9/09 at 4:54 pm to Housplants
Posted on 8/9/09 at 4:54 pm to Housplants
quote:
The best player is not always the best athlete
well no crap
i haven't already said that 20 times in this thread...oh wait yes i have
quote:
So, you are once again avoiding your incorrectness.
no i'm not
quote:
If a person has great measureables (speed and strength), but is not a good player of sports, I do not classify them as a great athlete.
well then you're an idiot and don't understand what athleticism is
1
Posted on 8/9/09 at 4:55 pm to SlowFlowPro
Also, under your definitions, how do you account for people like Luke Sanders or Cutrera? Great numbers, but noticeably stiff on the field. This stiffness, however, isn't quantifiable.
So, can one be a workout warrior WITHOUT being a great athlete?
Its the intangible fluidity of athleticism that you aren't taking into account here.
So, can one be a workout warrior WITHOUT being a great athlete?
Its the intangible fluidity of athleticism that you aren't taking into account here.
Posted on 8/9/09 at 4:56 pm to truthbetold
quote:
Also, under your definitions, how do you account for people like Luke Sanders or Cutrera?
luke sanders just lacked mental aspects of the game and wasn't tough. he was slow-witted on the field and had poor instincts
cutrera is fast, but not agile at all. i also don't know if he's explosive
Posted on 8/9/09 at 5:00 pm to SlowFlowPro
But were they great athletes?
Let's compare Luke and Jake to a guy like Claiborne, who probably runs a 4.5 and benches 2-something, but effortlessly glides across the field (after only 3 days/vids of camp, anyone can see this) with great COD.
Luke's and Jacob's numbers are probably better across the board. Are they better athletes than MC?
I vote no.
Let's compare Luke and Jake to a guy like Claiborne, who probably runs a 4.5 and benches 2-something, but effortlessly glides across the field (after only 3 days/vids of camp, anyone can see this) with great COD.
Luke's and Jacob's numbers are probably better across the board. Are they better athletes than MC?
I vote no.
Posted on 8/9/09 at 5:03 pm to SlowFlowPro
Athletes are athletes. Athleticism is athleticism. You want to discount Kevin Faulk for being a touch too slow for your definition. But who is a better athlete-- Faulk or Brazell? Faulk or Xavier Carter? Who's the better athlete-- nevermind your exact definition of "freak"?
You also did support that Cassanova was a freak, then admitted to not knowing his measurables, which forced you to throw in that 1)how many positions you play and 2)reputation matter. And you said to not get caught up in Cassanova as the definition, when it was one that you supported until you couldn't back it up. Nice backtrack. So who has the better reputation as an athlete-- Faulk/Laron Landry? Or Xavier Carter? It is an opinion, but I think most would pick Faulk or Landry... or at a minimum would put an * by Carter to say a "track athlete".
And this:
wtf? You want to define football athleticism by qualities not on the football field?
You are being a tool for the sake of your own posting vanity. And while I did miss the "if" in your teaching the lesson quote, I've seen enough of your posts to see the same old setup of a simple question that gets a few answers, which you suddenly contradict to start an argument so you can make yourself feel like an expert. Congrats.
In the end, I really don't care and don't have a problem with you, so whatever.
You also did support that Cassanova was a freak, then admitted to not knowing his measurables, which forced you to throw in that 1)how many positions you play and 2)reputation matter. And you said to not get caught up in Cassanova as the definition, when it was one that you supported until you couldn't back it up. Nice backtrack. So who has the better reputation as an athlete-- Faulk/Laron Landry? Or Xavier Carter? It is an opinion, but I think most would pick Faulk or Landry... or at a minimum would put an * by Carter to say a "track athlete".
And this:
quote:
it's not about his play on the field at all
wtf? You want to define football athleticism by qualities not on the football field?
You are being a tool for the sake of your own posting vanity. And while I did miss the "if" in your teaching the lesson quote, I've seen enough of your posts to see the same old setup of a simple question that gets a few answers, which you suddenly contradict to start an argument so you can make yourself feel like an expert. Congrats.
In the end, I really don't care and don't have a problem with you, so whatever.
Posted on 8/9/09 at 5:05 pm to truthbetold
well luke ran in the mid 4.7s so that difference in speed (i think a 4.5 is slow for what claiborne is supposed to be) is big
i think we should hold off on pumping up jake until he runs
i think we should hold off on pumping up jake until he runs
Posted on 8/9/09 at 5:06 pm to epbart
quote:
You want to define football athleticism by qualities not on the football field?
speed
strength
quickness
balance
explosion
agility
these are qualities ON the football field
Posted on 8/9/09 at 5:09 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
balance
explosion
How are we quantifying these? Vertical?
Posted on 8/9/09 at 5:10 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
speed
strength
quickness
balance
explosion
agility
all thinks korte excelled in?
Posted on 8/9/09 at 5:12 pm to SlowFlowPro
yes, all of those are qualities... and so are vision and determination to add a couple more.
But who is a better athlete-- Laron Landry or Bennie Brazell? I know you know Bennie is faster.
You are getting caught up on NFL measurables, and ignoring lots of other factors that make someone a great or even freakish athlete. Faulk was exceptional and so was Landry. And you are being a tool to say they weren't outstanding, and then propping up Korte as the definition of an outstanding athlete.
At least here you are finally admitting there are other qualities that determine athleticism ON the football field, even though earlier you were trying to keep the argument off of the field. Thank you.
But who is a better athlete-- Laron Landry or Bennie Brazell? I know you know Bennie is faster.
You are getting caught up on NFL measurables, and ignoring lots of other factors that make someone a great or even freakish athlete. Faulk was exceptional and so was Landry. And you are being a tool to say they weren't outstanding, and then propping up Korte as the definition of an outstanding athlete.
At least here you are finally admitting there are other qualities that determine athleticism ON the football field, even though earlier you were trying to keep the argument off of the field. Thank you.
Posted on 8/9/09 at 5:12 pm to truthbetold
quote:
How are we quantifying these? Vertical?
10 yard dash, vertical, and broad jump are usually the best in terms of running explosion
Posted on 8/9/09 at 5:14 pm to epbart
quote:
But who is a better athlete-- Laron Landry or Bennie Brazell? I know you know Bennie is faster.
landry ran faster and was more agile
quote:
At least here you are finally admitting there are other qualities that determine athleticism ON the football field,
not athleticism
they determine PLAY on the football field
you judge athleticism by judging physical attributes used ON the football field
Posted on 8/9/09 at 5:18 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
it's not my fault that LSU doesn't sign/develop many freak athletes
so who does?
Posted on 8/9/09 at 5:20 pm to SlowFlowPro
little straight line running tests and shuttles, etc. don't measure vision, balance, or agility very well. And yet these factors are very important. You are tenaciously defending a flawed argument.
Posted on 8/9/09 at 5:46 pm to Housplants
quote:
In my opinion, the last freak football athlete at LSU was Corey Webster. He had an unbelievable ability to change directions and control his body. Michael Clayton was also a great athlete. Neither were speedsters, but they were so athletic that they didn't need to be speedsters. They were both easily the best athletes on the field during their final spring games at LSU.
ahhh, i wanted to get to this but had to run earlier, glad someone did.
great post
quote:
Spped and strength does not make someone a great athlete...it makes them fast and strong. Body control, eye-hand coordination, quick feet, great vision, etc. make a great athlete.
Posted on 8/9/09 at 6:33 pm to Lester Earl
shaq
Posted on 8/9/09 at 7:01 pm to SlowFlowPro
Dude, this is easy. It's Chad Jones if you are going to go by the term "athlete". How many guys can be one of the most talented free safeties in the country, and also be throwing freakin' 90 mph heat and wicked curveballs in the College World Series. So this is an easy question.
Peterson and Shepard also have a chance to be freaks.
Peterson and Shepard also have a chance to be freaks.
Posted on 8/9/09 at 7:05 pm to ColtsTigers
quote:
Spped and strength does not make someone a great athlete...it makes them fast and strong. Body control, eye-hand coordination, quick feet, great vision, etc. make a great athlete.
i agree. this basically explains the difference between blake griffin and tyler hansborough. according to their combine numbers they are very similar athletes but if you've ever watched them play, well..
Posted on 8/9/09 at 7:14 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
bowe was a better athlete than clayton
The performance in the NFL so far supports this, but I consider them very comparable. Bowe really improved his catching ability after the eye surgery. They were pretty similar in how physical they were and how well they blocked. I don't really know what has happened to M. Clayton after his rookie year that resulted in the drop off in his performance.
Posted on 8/9/09 at 7:17 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
In my opinion, the last freak football athlete at LSU was Corey Webster. He had an unbelievable ability to change directions and control his body
... from Housplants..
I loved Webster... great instincts. But, I haven't seen receivers outrun P.P. like with C.Webster.
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