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re: What happened to Jordan Jefferson over the course of his career
Posted on 7/30/15 at 2:24 pm to lsufball19
Posted on 7/30/15 at 2:24 pm to lsufball19
quote:You're desperately attempting to argue that Lee never played bad in consecutive games; HOWEVER, you completely fail to acknowledge that the consecutive games that Jefferson played in were:quote:when did i claim he did? jefferson was still horrible in both games
When did Lee play in consecutive championship games? Never.
(1) consecutive games against Top 5 Defenses, and
(2) consecutive games that were championship games.
1
Posted on 7/30/15 at 2:32 pm to Salviati
quote:
You're desperately attempting to argue that Lee never played bad in consecutive games;
well, he didn't
quote:
ou completely fail to acknowledge that the consecutive games that Jefferson played in were:
(1) consecutive games against Top 5 Defenses, and
(2) consecutive games that were championship games.
great, and he was still awful.
Posted on 7/30/15 at 2:33 pm to lsufball19
quote:
lsufball19
Just address this post so that we can be done with this abomination of a thread... until the next time it is posted.
quote:
He did the same thing against Georgia in the SECCG that Lee did in the opener.. he sucked, he left the defense force some turnovers, and he made a few plays which allowed the running backs to bulldoze the defense.
The difference between the BCSNG and every other game where the game was within one possession late in the contest wasn't who was at quarterback... it was that in every other instance, somebody on D/ST made a play. In THAT game, despite not giving up a TD until the 4th quarter, the defense forced no turnovers, and forced only three punts... for a total of 1 return yard.
Posted on 7/30/15 at 2:35 pm to Salviati
quote:
NO ONE said that Jefferson had an "awesome" game against Georgia. NO ONE said it.
you said he managed the offense beautifully by implementing the read motion so well, and guided the offense to FOUR TOUCHDOWNS. if that's not trying to pout lipstick on a pig, i don't know what is
quote:
So, yes, you are creating a straw man and moving the goalposts.
i don't think you know what a strawman argument is champ, clearly
Posted on 7/30/15 at 2:42 pm to lsufball19
quote:
well, he didn't
quote:Good, good. You're starting to learn. This is a big breakthrough. Hopefully you can also learn to stop parroting the bullshite you've heard.
great
But I'm happy for baby steps.
quote:I've given you facts to show you that he wasn't. You refuse to accept the facts.
he was still awful
In EVERY game that Lee started, LSU gained fewer rushing yards per play than LSU gained in the SECCG. In the SECCG, LSU gained over 200 yards rushing. In Lee's nine starts, LSU gained over 200 yards rushing in only TWO games. So, LSU gained more yards rushing in the SECCG than in 7 of Lee's starts.
Why did LSU gain so many rushing yards in the SECCG? A big part of it was that Jefferson executed the option and zone read to near perfection in the second half of the SECCG.
In ALL FIVE of LSU's possessions in the second half of the SECCG, Jefferson either ran for, threw for, or executed an option or zone read for a first down. ALL FIVE. And again, LSU rushed better when Jefferson was QB, and the SECCG was the fourth highest YPC in 2011. (The only games with higher YPC were Jefferson's three regular season starts.)
LSU scored FOUR offensive TDs in the SECCG. Jefferson threw a pass for a TD, and he was the QB for the other three TDs.
LSU blew out Georgia. Tyrann Mathieu was a HUGE part of it, but the offense scored FOUR TDs, and a lot of it was thanks to Jefferson being the QB on the field.
And Jefferson completed almost 65% of his passes in the BCSCG. The O-Line provided almost zero run blocking and almost no pass protection.
Posted on 7/30/15 at 2:47 pm to lsufball19
quote:I never said anything about a read motion. I've never even heard of it.
you said he managed the offense beautifully by implementing the read motion so well
quote:I NEVER, repeat NEVER said that he had an "awesome" game against Georgia. I did say that he executed the zone read and the option to near perfection in the second half. I did say that he was an integral part of a blowout against Georgia in the SECCG. I would never say that his performance in the second half of the SECCG amounted to an "awesome" performance for the game.
you said he managed the offense beautifully by implementing the read motion so well, and guided the offense to FOUR TOUCHDOWNS. if that's not trying to pout lipstick on a pig, i don't know what is
quote:quote:i don't think you know what a strawman argument is champ, clearly
So, yes, you are creating a straw man and moving the goalposts.
Dude, what is completely clear, is that YOU are the one who CREATED them, and you REFUSE to acknowledge them.
Posted on 7/30/15 at 2:49 pm to fightingtigers98
Summary version:
Jefferson had natural size, athleticism, and arm strength that allowed him to get on the field early, with some success. He struggled at reading defenses and breaking down their weaknesses. The more he was asked to handle, the more he struggled with it. Eventually the coaches said frick it and tried to use his athleticism instead, which wasn't a natural fit for him. With better coaching and development, he should have had a higher ceiling.
A large portion of the fan base doesn't like him for his selfish attitude. He always seemed to think he was doing things right and others were the reason it wasn't working out. His arrest just prior to his senior season dumped a gas tank on this fire. He is the scapegoat for the entire team shitting the bed on 1/9. Many felt Lee was the better man for sticking with LSU and preparing himself even though he had many reasons to leave. Their talent difference was negligible, although they brought different things to the table.
They were both Tigers and both worked their butts off to get us to a championship game. Let's let the past be in the past and quit beating a dead horse.
Jefferson had natural size, athleticism, and arm strength that allowed him to get on the field early, with some success. He struggled at reading defenses and breaking down their weaknesses. The more he was asked to handle, the more he struggled with it. Eventually the coaches said frick it and tried to use his athleticism instead, which wasn't a natural fit for him. With better coaching and development, he should have had a higher ceiling.
A large portion of the fan base doesn't like him for his selfish attitude. He always seemed to think he was doing things right and others were the reason it wasn't working out. His arrest just prior to his senior season dumped a gas tank on this fire. He is the scapegoat for the entire team shitting the bed on 1/9. Many felt Lee was the better man for sticking with LSU and preparing himself even though he had many reasons to leave. Their talent difference was negligible, although they brought different things to the table.
They were both Tigers and both worked their butts off to get us to a championship game. Let's let the past be in the past and quit beating a dead horse.
This post was edited on 7/30/15 at 9:16 pm
Posted on 7/30/15 at 2:58 pm to tlsu15
quote:This is pretty good, but I tweaked it a smidge.
Summary version:
Jefferson had natural size, athleticism, and arm strength that allowed him to get on the field early, with some success. Crowton failed to coach Jefferson or Lee, and instead Crowton's offense diminished their chances for success. The more they were asked to handle, the more they struggled with it. Eventually Crowton said frick it and tried to use Jefferson's athleticism instead, which wasn't a natural fit for him. With better coaching and development, both Jefferson and Lee should have had a higher ceiling.
A large portion of the fan base doesn't like Jefferson because they wanted Lee to start and for what they perceived to be Jefferson's selfish attitude. He always seemed to think he was doing things right. His arrest just prior to his senior season dumped a gas tank on this fire. He is the scapegoat for the entire team shitting the bed on 1/9. Many felt Lee was the better man for sticking with LSU and preparing himself even though he had many reasons to leave. Their talent difference was not large, although they brought different things to the table.
They were both Tigers and both worked their butts off to get us to a championship game. Let's let the past be in the past and quit beating a dead horse.
This post was edited on 7/30/15 at 3:01 pm
Posted on 7/30/15 at 3:00 pm to Salviati
quote:
Salviati
That's exactly what I was trying to say. Thanks for the edit
Posted on 7/30/15 at 3:06 pm to tlsu15
Posted on 7/30/15 at 3:46 pm to Rickdaddy4188
quote:
If you took a poll on the rant asking if they would take a 3 year starter that would finish top 6 in every major passing statistic in lsu history, EVERY SINGLE ONE WOULD SAY HELL YES.
except for JJ...alot of you have short term memory and forget how god awful he was
our rb's and defense were the reason lsu won so many games...fact
This post was edited on 7/30/15 at 3:48 pm
Posted on 7/30/15 at 4:39 pm to tiggah1981
quote:Wrong. Most knowledgeable LSU fans appreciate what Jefferson did for LSU. Just like most knowledgeable LSU fans appreciate what Lee did for LSU. Your opinion is in the minority.quote:except for JJ...
If you took a poll on the rant asking if they would take a 3 year starter that would finish top 6 in every major passing statistic in lsu history, EVERY SINGLE ONE WOULD SAY HELL YES.
The greatest sin that Jefferson ever committed was supplanting Jarrett Lee as the starter. Lee fans were outraged when that happened.
In the spring and summer of 2009, there were blatantly racist posts made about Jefferson. The posts were ultimately whacked, but the Lee supporters merely changed tactics and smeared Jefferson as viciously and as often as possible.
The smear campaign continued throughout the 2009 season. During that season, Jefferson compiled a 61.5% completion percentage and efficiency rating of 137.18, compared to Lee's 40.00% completion percentage and efficiency rating of 92.87. Obviously, the Lee fans could not argue the stats, so they focused on a personality based attack. Every time Jefferson commented, his words were twisted and taken out of context. It was flat out ugly. The Lee fans were relentless.
I'm not attempting to suggest that the anger toward Jefferson was race-based, but there were some obviously racist statements made. I believe only a tiny fraction of the Jefferson haters at that time had racist motives. Nevertheless, that tiny minority was extremely vocal on the Tiger Rant. Their memes were picked up by the masses.
Jefferson needed to be perfect, and Jefferson was not perfect, either on the field or off. He suffered behind an offensive line in 2009 that was atrocious, and he suffered from an offensive system that killed QBs.
Crowton is, was, and has been a notorious killer of QBs. He did it at Oregon, and LSU fans were warned. He continued his mayhem at LSU after he abandoned the Fisher system. He further continued his atrocities at Maryland after being dismissed from LSU. Lee suffered as much under Crowton as Jefferson did. But Lee benefited from being relegated to being the backup QB; no person is as universally loved as the backup QB. And, naturally, the backup QB does not make as many mistakes.
I don't now, nor have I ever, hated Lee. To the contrary, I deeply appreciate what Lee did for LSU, for staying, for playing, and for leading LSU in the first half of 2011. I don't believe for one minute that Mett was ready in 2011, and I think the first half of 2012 is proof of Mett being unready.
I do, however, have an abiding apathy for the Lee fans who went to such lengths and took such great delight in their efforts to smear Jefferson. They twisted the truth to serve their purposes, and they even flat out lied when lies worked better.
I have never smeared Lee. You'll never read a negative post from me about his person or his personality. I believe that Lee gave everything he had for LSU. Same for Jefferson. I have merely attempted to compare Lee's stats to Jefferson's stats. I think both Lee and Jefferson would have benefited greatly from better coaching. Unfortunately, they both had Crowton for most of their time at LSU.
Posted on 7/30/15 at 6:30 pm to Salviati
quote:
Salviati
wow, great posts! thank you.
Posted on 7/30/15 at 6:58 pm to fightingtigers98
quote:
Jordan Jefferson
Posted on 7/30/15 at 7:20 pm to Salviati
I'd remove the word perceived because of his actions and his words. I'm not sure how you can defend his attitude, which was my problem with him. He was an arse. I don't give a frick if he was chartreuse. His attitude was garbage. He fricked the program even after he left.
Posted on 7/30/15 at 7:28 pm to Salviati
as I said earlier in the thread people will bash people they don't like and will blame things on them irrationally.
I once talked to a guy who hated les miles he said, "I hate Les Miles, he sucks, and I will blame everything on him."
Another person once said "if you're a supervisor on your job and something goes wrong it's their fault, so I will blame Les Miles for everything"
They hate someone so much, that they become blind to facts.
Jordan Jefferson isn't soley to blame for that game against Bama, the offensive line was putrid and utter shite. Bamas front seven dominated them, we had no push upfront what so ever and their was free rushers all night. We were throwing screens to the WR because the line couldn't block for more than 2 seconds.
People also don't want to credit Jefferson for helping win the GOTC, because we sure as hell werent gonna with Lee in their.
Lee helped us win a ton of games at LSU and he should be praised for that, LSU wouldn't have won the BCSNCG with him in their, he would've been crushed which is why Jefferson stayed in.
I agree Jefferson should've been taken out, but I can see why miles kept him in.
I once talked to a guy who hated les miles he said, "I hate Les Miles, he sucks, and I will blame everything on him."
Another person once said "if you're a supervisor on your job and something goes wrong it's their fault, so I will blame Les Miles for everything"
They hate someone so much, that they become blind to facts.
Jordan Jefferson isn't soley to blame for that game against Bama, the offensive line was putrid and utter shite. Bamas front seven dominated them, we had no push upfront what so ever and their was free rushers all night. We were throwing screens to the WR because the line couldn't block for more than 2 seconds.
People also don't want to credit Jefferson for helping win the GOTC, because we sure as hell werent gonna with Lee in their.
Lee helped us win a ton of games at LSU and he should be praised for that, LSU wouldn't have won the BCSNCG with him in their, he would've been crushed which is why Jefferson stayed in.
I agree Jefferson should've been taken out, but I can see why miles kept him in.
This post was edited on 7/30/15 at 7:29 pm
Posted on 7/30/15 at 7:33 pm to tigerfan in bamaland
Take away Lee's fresh year and there isn't a whole lot to bitch about.
It really weakens his haters gripe about the guy.
JJ was a player that regressed while he was at LSU. On and off the field .
That's most LSU fans biggest disdain with him.
I sat by JJ at a road game couple years ago. He loves LSU and for the most part prob did the best he could at the time.
Luckily most of us don't know what's it like to be qb at big time college program.
It really weakens his haters gripe about the guy.
JJ was a player that regressed while he was at LSU. On and off the field .
That's most LSU fans biggest disdain with him.
I sat by JJ at a road game couple years ago. He loves LSU and for the most part prob did the best he could at the time.
Luckily most of us don't know what's it like to be qb at big time college program.
This post was edited on 7/30/15 at 7:34 pm
Posted on 7/30/15 at 7:35 pm to Makinbacon
Lee wasn't ready his freshman year, he got dicked over by perriloux.
No one hates Lee like they hate Jefferson
No one hates Lee like they hate Jefferson
Posted on 7/30/15 at 7:41 pm to jlu03
quote:Now there's the measured and rational response that I've come to expect from Jefferson haters.quote:
Jordan Jefferson
Posted on 7/30/15 at 7:46 pm to tigerfan in bamaland
quote:
I'd remove the word perceived because of his actions and his words. I'm not sure how you can defend his attitude, which was my problem with him. He was an arse.
quote:Please link all of his terrible statements that display such a despicable attitude. Please.
His attitude was garbage.
His coaches never thought he had a bad attitude. His teammates never thought he had a bad attitude.
Again, please link all of his terrible statements that display such a despicable attitude. Please.
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