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re: What about Crowton
Posted on 10/15/10 at 12:46 pm to tojoe
Posted on 10/15/10 at 12:46 pm to tojoe
quote:
Billy Gonzales did not leave Florida to take the same position at LSU
Actually, he might have. What do UF fans think of Addazio right now? They are booing the hell out of him. EDSBS thinks he's in over his head, and wishes Gonzalez would have been hired as OC instead.
0
Posted on 10/15/10 at 12:54 pm to nrsaint
quote:
Crowton does call the plays and I'm told LM doesn't overrule the individual play calling too often. He does tell GC when to run or throw sometimes (not all that often unless late in game with a lead), but GC mostly calls the individual play, from what I'm told.
This is what most Ranters really seem to care about, and yet it isn't the real issue here.
Aside from calling individual plays, and aside from personnel decisions, the critical issue is who is deciding the overall scheme of the offense? Is Les Miles overruling Crowton when it comes to disciplining players in drills on what routes to run, whom to block, how to pick up blitzes, etc.? Is Les Miles overruling Crowton on teaching the mechanics and recognition skills of the QB position?
Criticizing individual play calls is a national pastime, but the real strategy lies more on patterns from play distributions over a longer time horizon. Is LSU running enough I formation? Enough play action? Enough power counter runs?
I suppose the 2 years of offense ineptitude could be more due to Miles's meddling than Crowton's inability to teach new players, but right now Crowton doesn't look very good.
Posted on 10/15/10 at 12:57 pm to Doc Fenton
Crowton's garbage. The only reason the offense is doing any better is because JLee isn't an option QB, but don't be surprised if Crowton tries to get JLee to run it. 
This post was edited on 10/15/10 at 12:58 pm
Posted on 10/15/10 at 1:37 pm to Hulkklogan
I love how people just ignore the fact that Crowton's offenses at LSU have been good except for when Jordan Jefferson is under center. J. Lee has played significant snaps for 2 games and we've been over 400 yards both those games. Quit ignoring the facts. We've only truly struggled to move the ball when Jordan Jefferson is under center.
Posted on 10/15/10 at 1:47 pm to GeauxWarrior12
Nobody's ignoring that, and it is a mitigating factor in defense of Crowton. But the point people seem to be missing is that Crowton still deserves a large portion of blame for what happened in 2009. Just as it was always absurd to pin the offense's woeful performance that year on Herbert, Dworacyzk, "dropped passes", & Crowton, so it is just as silly to try to pin it all on Jefferson. It's not fair to JJ.
I've never been a huge JJ optimist, so I think I have some credibility on here when I say that I think that it's very likely that Crowton failed Jefferson.
Now nobody posting on here is a true insider (at least I hope not), so some of the inside tidbits are missing. We don't know to what extent Jefferson was uncoachable, or to what extent Miles enabled Jefferson to suck by babying him, or to what extent Miles meddled in the design of the overall offensive scheme. But even without this knowledge, it seems reasonable to believe that Crowton was a terrible coordinator in 2009, that this was set up by poor planning in 2008, and that he continued many of his mistakes into 2010.
It is great that the offense is turning into a monster the last couple of games, looks sharp, and is capable of moving the ball against anyone. But let's not get too excited too fast, or forget for how long the offensive coordination has been lacking and/or completely abysmal. Over the last couple of years, things have gone terribly terribly wrong with the offensive coaching, and the last 2 games doesn't erase that.
I've never been a huge JJ optimist, so I think I have some credibility on here when I say that I think that it's very likely that Crowton failed Jefferson.
Now nobody posting on here is a true insider (at least I hope not), so some of the inside tidbits are missing. We don't know to what extent Jefferson was uncoachable, or to what extent Miles enabled Jefferson to suck by babying him, or to what extent Miles meddled in the design of the overall offensive scheme. But even without this knowledge, it seems reasonable to believe that Crowton was a terrible coordinator in 2009, that this was set up by poor planning in 2008, and that he continued many of his mistakes into 2010.
It is great that the offense is turning into a monster the last couple of games, looks sharp, and is capable of moving the ball against anyone. But let's not get too excited too fast, or forget for how long the offensive coordination has been lacking and/or completely abysmal. Over the last couple of years, things have gone terribly terribly wrong with the offensive coaching, and the last 2 games doesn't erase that.
Posted on 10/15/10 at 1:47 pm to GeauxWarrior12
quote:
2 games and we've been over 400 yards both those games.
Not true.
quote:
We've only truly struggled to move the ball when Jordan Jefferson is under center.
I think Lee is the better QB option, but the total yards gained when Lee was QB to the total yards gained when JJ was QB was only about 20 yards differnce.
Posted on 10/15/10 at 1:49 pm to Doc Fenton
quote:
I've never been a huge JJ optimist, so I think I have some credibility on here when I say that I think that it's very likely that Crowton failed Jefferson.
I agree.
History would bare this out as well. Oregon struggled with Dennis Dixon while Crowton was OC.
He's not adept with mobile guys.
His offense were at their best (the Bears, LA Tech) when he employed a pocket passing, wide open passing attack type of game.
Posted on 10/15/10 at 1:51 pm to OBUDan
quote:
the total yards gained when Lee was QB to the total yards gained when JJ was QB was only about 20 yards differnce.
That's kind of missing the point. Having Lee play half the series improves JJ's ability to move the ball tremendously. The mentality of the opposing defense is not something that can be turned "off" and "on" like a switch that easily. Lee's style allows him to open up the opposing D for JJ to exploit.
Posted on 10/15/10 at 1:52 pm to OBUDan
quote:
His offense were at their best (the Bears, LA Tech) when he employed a pocket passing, wide open passing attack type of game.
Right on. Like someone else said, "trying to fit a square peg in a round hole." And that doesn't just go for the QB, but for the strengths and weaknesses of the surrounding offensive players as well. Crowton can't seem to adapt to their style, or teach them to play his style very well.
Posted on 10/15/10 at 1:54 pm to Doc Fenton
quote:
That's kind of missing the point. Having Lee play half the series improves JJ's ability to move the ball tremendously. The mentality of the opposing defense is not something that can be turned "off" and "on" like a switch that easily. Lee's style allows him to open up the opposing D for JJ to exploit.
I don't disagree.
But I think it works both ways.
I was just saying that the idea that JJ didn't move the ball AT ALL is wrong.
Posted on 10/15/10 at 1:55 pm to Doc Fenton
quote:
Right on. Like someone else said, "trying to fit a square peg in a round hole." And that doesn't just go for the QB, but for the strengths and weaknesses of the surrounding offensive players as well. Crowton can't seem to adapt to their style, or teach them to play his style very well.
Agreed.
And I don't think Miles/Crowton are as good of a fit as maybe they thought they would be based on their friendship.
I think Miles would prefer an offense more similar to what Bama runs (2 TEs, power running, play action passing).
GC would prefer to spread the defense out and wing it around constantly.
Categorical opposites and it's hard to make those two ideals mesh.
Posted on 10/15/10 at 2:08 pm to OBUDan
Crowton's offense won the NC a few years ago.
Crowton is an OC and an offensive coordinator is rarely if ever going to look worth a shite when you have a defense that gives you a long field/never gets turnovers, an offensive line that can't block, and qb that can't throw and a qb that you must eliminate half of the pass plays because he is not capable of making that throw.
As soon as Les Miles allowed Lee to play miraculously the offense starts clicking.
Argue all you want but every single thing I just posted is fact.
Think about this... JJ can't make certain throws. JJ can't make any throws consistently. JJ runs the ball fairly well. You are in charge of the offense. Option play has been sucking. Fans are drilling you for it. You need some sort of spark for the offense or you will be out of a job. You practice the option in practice because you NEED it considering that JJ is the quarterback. It works ok in practice. Do you run it a few times in the game?
Well if you answered yes that is what GC has done. He ran it more only after it was working in the Tenn. game. Picked up two long first downs with it in that game.
Crowton is an OC and an offensive coordinator is rarely if ever going to look worth a shite when you have a defense that gives you a long field/never gets turnovers, an offensive line that can't block, and qb that can't throw and a qb that you must eliminate half of the pass plays because he is not capable of making that throw.
As soon as Les Miles allowed Lee to play miraculously the offense starts clicking.
Argue all you want but every single thing I just posted is fact.
Think about this... JJ can't make certain throws. JJ can't make any throws consistently. JJ runs the ball fairly well. You are in charge of the offense. Option play has been sucking. Fans are drilling you for it. You need some sort of spark for the offense or you will be out of a job. You practice the option in practice because you NEED it considering that JJ is the quarterback. It works ok in practice. Do you run it a few times in the game?
Well if you answered yes that is what GC has done. He ran it more only after it was working in the Tenn. game. Picked up two long first downs with it in that game.
Posted on 10/15/10 at 2:19 pm to omegaman66
The option has worked consistently all year, both before and after Lee.
Posted on 10/15/10 at 4:19 pm to OBUDan
quote:
The option has worked consistently all year, both before and after Lee.
No.
The Nebraska option works consistently. Ours just worked better than JJ passing the ball. We didn't get to be over 100 in offense those first weeks by doing anything consistently.
The only thing that has worked every time it's been tried is JL passing the ball.
Posted on 10/15/10 at 8:00 pm to srlad
I'm not sure what to make of GC.
The "Crowtonic Trend", i.e., decline in O production after his first year, is well substantiated. However, I have never seen where anyone took the time to normalize things so that one can account for all the factors that come into play.
It's more than JJ or JL. In fact, our O with JJ as a true Fr did ok in his two starts at the end of '08.
Our O didn't really go flat until '09 and stayed that way until JL entered against Tenn.
IMO, Les simply did not want to repeat the mistakes made in '08. So for '09, he simply restricted what GC was allowed to do. So it may be GC calling the plays, but it's been Les avoidance of '08 mistakes that have limited what GC was allowed to do.
I don't think Les was willing to let GC "run" the O until JJ fired the int against Tenn.
So if our O gets rid of the rough edges and really takes flight, I'm ok with GC. He has his limitations (as will the next OC) and I think the time mgt against Tenn was mostly his fault.
Let's see how things play out. If our O lights-up Bama this year (which at present I won't be surprised if it happens), what then?
The "Crowtonic Trend", i.e., decline in O production after his first year, is well substantiated. However, I have never seen where anyone took the time to normalize things so that one can account for all the factors that come into play.
It's more than JJ or JL. In fact, our O with JJ as a true Fr did ok in his two starts at the end of '08.
Our O didn't really go flat until '09 and stayed that way until JL entered against Tenn.
IMO, Les simply did not want to repeat the mistakes made in '08. So for '09, he simply restricted what GC was allowed to do. So it may be GC calling the plays, but it's been Les avoidance of '08 mistakes that have limited what GC was allowed to do.
I don't think Les was willing to let GC "run" the O until JJ fired the int against Tenn.
So if our O gets rid of the rough edges and really takes flight, I'm ok with GC. He has his limitations (as will the next OC) and I think the time mgt against Tenn was mostly his fault.
Let's see how things play out. If our O lights-up Bama this year (which at present I won't be surprised if it happens), what then?
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