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We don't need a "Wizard" at LSU...
Posted on 12/1/09 at 10:53 pm
Posted on 12/1/09 at 10:53 pm
In regards to Crowton, and this is merely my opinion, we need to get back to the basics on offense with our next OC. For all the critics that claim we need to be more creative on offense, I totally disagree.
We don't need an offensive "innovator" at LSU. I don't believe we need an overly "creative" offensive coordinator. Schools like Cincinnati, Boise, Utah, Mississippi State, Baylor, Oklahoma St, etc. need coaches like those to out-scheme their opponents.
Schools like LSU, USC, Texas, Oklahoma, etc, don't need to outscheme the other team. We have better players and should be able to beat you with those better players if we do the basics, and do them well.
I think Gary Crowton's offense is too complex, and thus is the reason he hasn't had the success at LSU that we all had hoped we would have. Offense is not complex, and shouldn't be. Get 3.5 yards every play, and you will never be stopped. We need to get back to the basics, pick 20 plays and go with them. No need for all the creative formations, personnel packages, and trickeration IMO.
We don't need an offensive "innovator" at LSU. I don't believe we need an overly "creative" offensive coordinator. Schools like Cincinnati, Boise, Utah, Mississippi State, Baylor, Oklahoma St, etc. need coaches like those to out-scheme their opponents.
Schools like LSU, USC, Texas, Oklahoma, etc, don't need to outscheme the other team. We have better players and should be able to beat you with those better players if we do the basics, and do them well.
I think Gary Crowton's offense is too complex, and thus is the reason he hasn't had the success at LSU that we all had hoped we would have. Offense is not complex, and shouldn't be. Get 3.5 yards every play, and you will never be stopped. We need to get back to the basics, pick 20 plays and go with them. No need for all the creative formations, personnel packages, and trickeration IMO.
This post was edited on 12/2/09 at 7:28 am
Posted on 12/1/09 at 10:58 pm to JPLSU1981
Well, I agree with a lot of that, but every great team should be able to outscheme the opponent. Crowton's offense was too complicated, but his actual plays were too simple.
All a great offense really needs is about 10 to 15 plays to run over and over again, but the plays themselves have to have a good bit of misdirection and variability embedded within them. Crowton's plays seemed to completely lack both of those critical elements.
All a great offense really needs is about 10 to 15 plays to run over and over again, but the plays themselves have to have a good bit of misdirection and variability embedded within them. Crowton's plays seemed to completely lack both of those critical elements.
Posted on 12/1/09 at 10:58 pm to JPLSU1981
I think its actually the complete opposite. The offense is too basic. I see all these spread offenses that use sooooooooo much misdirection/motions it kills defenses for many reasons. Crowton couldn't even run a true Wildcat here. LSU runs a offense with no identity. At all. They have a semi-spread type offense that puts pistol formations and I-form sprinkled in. Its a hybrid and it has no identity whatsoever.
Why doesn't he put people in motion, option reads, something? It freezes defenses and forces them to respect people going in motion. You can't tell me LSU lacks the speed/athletes to do this. Hell, Auburn does it so much under Malazan. Am I the only one who thinks misdirection plays or just putting people in motion a lot could actually really help JJ in the pass game?
I mean, when a LB is being completely froze to respect a player in motion, shouldn't that make the passes over the top easier? That is just one example...
Why doesn't he put people in motion, option reads, something? It freezes defenses and forces them to respect people going in motion. You can't tell me LSU lacks the speed/athletes to do this. Hell, Auburn does it so much under Malazan. Am I the only one who thinks misdirection plays or just putting people in motion a lot could actually really help JJ in the pass game?
I mean, when a LB is being completely froze to respect a player in motion, shouldn't that make the passes over the top easier? That is just one example...
This post was edited on 12/1/09 at 11:01 pm
Posted on 12/1/09 at 10:58 pm to JPLSU1981
Cincy doesn't even have that complex a scheme tbh.
Kelly runs a good, fundamentally sound offense with a few frills (the pass routes all start as verticals and break into something else) but it's not really a gimmick to me.
But I get what you're saying.
Kelly runs a good, fundamentally sound offense with a few frills (the pass routes all start as verticals and break into something else) but it's not really a gimmick to me.
But I get what you're saying.
Posted on 12/1/09 at 11:00 pm to TigerBait45
Take a look at TCU. I love the way they play O and D.
Posted on 12/1/09 at 11:00 pm to JPLSU1981
but we do need pro potential wide receivers and pro potential QB's. and we do need to spread the field at times. i agree with you in general about excess creativity. mean, nasty arse defense; a damn strong running game and a good quality vertical passing attack wins championships.
Posted on 12/1/09 at 11:02 pm to LSU GrandDad
quote:absolutely essential and something we ignore.
a damn strong running game
Posted on 12/2/09 at 12:34 am to Touchdowns4LSU
The offensive line appears confused about blocking assinments. Too many alignments-I think we confuse our own players. Better to master a set number of plays to perfection, then use misdirection and variation based on those plays to confuse opponents.
And do we really need to run the option to "spread" out the defense. Teams have been using pitch outs and sweeps for decades to spread out defenses. The option is just an example of trying to do to much without mastering it. Sounds good on paper,but we run it poorly 90% of the time.
And do we really need to run the option to "spread" out the defense. Teams have been using pitch outs and sweeps for decades to spread out defenses. The option is just an example of trying to do to much without mastering it. Sounds good on paper,but we run it poorly 90% of the time.
Posted on 12/2/09 at 4:41 am to JPLSU1981
quote:
Gary Crowton's offense is too complex
Gosh - I wish I was an offensive genius so I could comprehend this complexity.
What these naive eyes saw was so vanilla that I lost my taste for Blue Bell Ice Cream.
Continually running an option to the short side of the field is complex?? or is it the fact that he runs it with people who cannot make the plays? is thta what makes it 'complex'?
Is it complex when 90 percent of the time, I can tell you what the next play is going to be? And I am by no means an offensive - or defensive - genius.
I saw basic plays - I saw no complexity in design or execution.
Maybe I am just dumb.
Posted on 12/2/09 at 6:48 am to ChineseBandit58
Crowton's offense is complex because he sticks with plays that obviously don't work . And when something works, we don't see it again because that's what the defense is expecting us to do. Against Arkansas we finally ran an option with Holliday and it worked for the first time this year, then after that first drive, we don't see Holliday again on offense.
Posted on 12/2/09 at 7:09 am to wil
quote:Or So Says Peyton Manning...But what does he know?
Better to master a set number of plays to perfection
Simplify offense and improve execution.
A great plan, poorly executed...
I am ready to see some cohesion on offense and I haven't seen where Crowton is committed to doing this.
Posted on 12/2/09 at 7:12 am to ChineseBandit58
quote:
Is it complex when 90 percent of the time, I can tell you what the next play is going to be?
Posted on 12/2/09 at 7:23 am to deuce985
Personaly I think we have gotten away from what has brought us two NC's in those three years when we actualy had a QB that could do the fundamentals of a true QB. Right now we do not have that. I believe that is why Oregon or Oregon St. has not won a national title because they do not have a true QB. I know you are going to say that Texas won with Vince Young, how many teams have won with a QB like that? The way he plays got him through College because he was special and Texas had a lot of talent to go with him, not many of those around and also how has he done in the NFL? Until lately not so good. That is the only one I know of. We had true QB's on our team now we only have one, Garret, and that is all. QB's like JJ and RS are good to have but they will not and can not do the things that a true QB can do without a lot of Coaching and teaching and up here there is very little time for making a QB out of a runner and not a thrower. They have to be taught and more than likely that is why we have not seen RS as of yet because he is having to be taught the mechanics of throwing the ball in certain situations. Just throwing to another playing running in the direction they are is one thing but to get the ball with touch to reciever that is covered and you have to throw it where only your reciever can get to it another. No, we don't need a "Wizard" but we do need an OC that takes his job well and makes sure that fundamentals are the most important as pect of being a QB in College if you want to win championships Conference or NC, we have seen here with our on eyes the last two years.
Posted on 12/2/09 at 7:26 am to Doc Fenton
quote:
Crowton's offense was too complicated, but his actual plays were too simple.
I don't know if his actual offense was too complicated but I will say the system they use to get a play called was terrible.
Posted on 12/2/09 at 8:00 am to ChineseBandit58
quote:
Is it complex when 90 percent of the time, I can tell you what the next play is going to be? And I am by no means an offensive - or defensive - genius.
This is true. You can usually guess the play by the formation which totally blows the point of having a variety of formations...
Posted on 12/2/09 at 8:02 am to JPLSU1981
quote:
Schools like Cincinnati, Boise, Utah, Mississippi State, Baylor, Oklahoma St, etc. need coaches like those to out-scheme their opponents.
boise doesn't really run a wacky offense
and they try to win by running first
FOR THE RECORD
Posted on 12/2/09 at 8:04 am to CaseyMc2
quote:
I believe that is why Oregon or Oregon St. has not won a national title because they do not have a true QB.
why do you have to hate on OSU? they don't exactly get the cream of the crop
and they run a pro-style
UO likely wins it all in 2007 if dixon doesn't get hurt
quote:
I know you are going to say that Texas won with Vince Young, how many teams have won with a QB like that?
texas 2005
florida 2008
florida 2009 maybe
Posted on 12/2/09 at 8:07 am to JPLSU1981
If we had 1 play that would work from the 2 yard line 80 percent of the time and even 50 percent of the time from the 4, it would do a world of good. Of course, a line and qb is absolutely necessary for that. No wizards, no gurus, no second comings...just a sound football plan.
Posted on 12/2/09 at 8:57 am to SlowFlowPro
First of all, SlowFlowPro Iam not putting down on those two schools what I am saying is you need a QB that thinks and reacts like one, not take off and run as soon as things don't look the way they should. QB that is in a passing situation looks to throw the ball first then run, not run then look to throw while running. JJ is getting there but, it would help a lot if he had someone that will take the time and work with him on how to react to the rush and have a feel for when to run and not throw. Yes they run a pro-style but they do not have a pro-stylle QB if they did with the talent they have or had they would have been in the running no matter if Dixon gets hurt or not. As a matter of fact just maybe if he would have been taught right at the position maybe he doesn't get hurt in the first place. JMHO!
Posted on 12/2/09 at 9:09 am to LSU GrandDad
What happened to the power i? Lsu used to line up an run the ball down their throats, very much like Penn state. Now we would rather be fancy show different formations. Looser!
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