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Was LSU more talented than ND? Was LSU realy a young team? So many 1st time starters?
Posted on 2/12/18 at 11:56 am
Posted on 2/12/18 at 11:56 am
Was LSU more talented than ND?
In the "Orgeron was also asked if he felt his program was on the rise" thread a poster stated "LSU's average recruiting class over the last 5 years (2013-2017) is 4th best in the country. ND's is 8th."
I looked at LSU's 24/7 classes from 2013 through 2016. I mainly went off of memory and came up with the list below of 4 & 5-star players who had left. I had actually missed Xavier Lewis in the original post and added him here. So this list could still be missing some and I didn't list the 3-stars who have left the program.
Some of LSU's 2013 4-stars:
Jeryl Brazil
Hayden Rettig
John Diarse
Avery Peterson
Anthony Jennings
Melvin Jones
Maquedius Bain
Andy Dodd
Rashard Robinson
Some of LSU's 2014 4-stars:
Clifton Garrett 5-star *****
Brandon Harris
Trey Quinn
Jevonte Domond
Tony Upchurch
Travonte Valentine
Some of LSU's 2015 4-stars:
Tyron Johnson 5-star *****
Maea Teuhema 5-star *****
Chidi Valentine-Okeke
Xavier Lewis
Jazz Ferguson
2016 includes Saivion Smith and Willie Allen.
What do these guys have in common?
They were 4-stars or higher. A bunch of 3's have left also.
They were not on LSU's team this year.
The reason they were not on the team was not because they had graduated.
LSU has lost three 5-stars and 19 4-stars from those classes.
If they re-graded LSU's classes I wonder where the classes would rank today? how much is a 5-star worth, 3 spots? If LSU had signed Surtain would they have been #12 or even higher? How much is 2 or 3 four stars worth to a class ranking?
I realize every team's class would also need to be "re-ranked" but was just curious how these LSU classes that everyone (including myself) was so excited about would look today if everything else remained static.
How accurate are the rankings and how much faith do you have in them?
LSU's best cornerback - Greedy was rated as the 16th best player in the 2016 class. He was rated as the 4th best defensive back. How does the 16th best player in one class all of a sudden become one of the top 3 or 4 players on an entire team if the rankings are half-arse accurate?
Whether correct or not, LSU's best receiver this year - the guy who showed out in the senior bowl - DJ Chark was the 19th rated recruit and a 3-star in his class. Russell Gage the 2nd best receiver on the team was rated three spots lower in the same class. Was that because of the rankings being incorrect or was LSU's WR's just not that good this year?
In the "Orgeron was also asked if he felt his program was on the rise" thread a poster stated "LSU's average recruiting class over the last 5 years (2013-2017) is 4th best in the country. ND's is 8th."
I looked at LSU's 24/7 classes from 2013 through 2016. I mainly went off of memory and came up with the list below of 4 & 5-star players who had left. I had actually missed Xavier Lewis in the original post and added him here. So this list could still be missing some and I didn't list the 3-stars who have left the program.
Some of LSU's 2013 4-stars:
Jeryl Brazil
Hayden Rettig
John Diarse
Avery Peterson
Anthony Jennings
Melvin Jones
Maquedius Bain
Andy Dodd
Rashard Robinson
Some of LSU's 2014 4-stars:
Clifton Garrett 5-star *****
Brandon Harris
Trey Quinn
Jevonte Domond
Tony Upchurch
Travonte Valentine
Some of LSU's 2015 4-stars:
Tyron Johnson 5-star *****
Maea Teuhema 5-star *****
Chidi Valentine-Okeke
Xavier Lewis
Jazz Ferguson
2016 includes Saivion Smith and Willie Allen.
What do these guys have in common?
They were 4-stars or higher. A bunch of 3's have left also.
They were not on LSU's team this year.
The reason they were not on the team was not because they had graduated.
LSU has lost three 5-stars and 19 4-stars from those classes.
If they re-graded LSU's classes I wonder where the classes would rank today? how much is a 5-star worth, 3 spots? If LSU had signed Surtain would they have been #12 or even higher? How much is 2 or 3 four stars worth to a class ranking?
I realize every team's class would also need to be "re-ranked" but was just curious how these LSU classes that everyone (including myself) was so excited about would look today if everything else remained static.
How accurate are the rankings and how much faith do you have in them?
LSU's best cornerback - Greedy was rated as the 16th best player in the 2016 class. He was rated as the 4th best defensive back. How does the 16th best player in one class all of a sudden become one of the top 3 or 4 players on an entire team if the rankings are half-arse accurate?
Whether correct or not, LSU's best receiver this year - the guy who showed out in the senior bowl - DJ Chark was the 19th rated recruit and a 3-star in his class. Russell Gage the 2nd best receiver on the team was rated three spots lower in the same class. Was that because of the rankings being incorrect or was LSU's WR's just not that good this year?
24
Posted on 2/12/18 at 11:56 am to Tiger Ree
Here is some info from the LSU website:
https://www.lsusports.net/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=211151291
this is about true freshmen and doesn't take into account the redshirt freshmen.
https://www.lsusports.net/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=211151291
this is about true freshmen and doesn't take into account the redshirt freshmen.
quote:
True Freshmen Continue to Play Big Roles at LSU
* So far this season, 20 true freshmen have played for the Tigers, which is tied for the most in the nation after seven weeks of the season.
quote:
* With Charles' start against BYU, he became the first true freshman to start a season opener on the offensive line since at least World War II.
quote:
* LSU's eight true freshmen starters in 2017 are the most since at least 2005
quote:
* The four true freshmen (Charles, Chaisson, Taylor and Delpit) who started the season opener matched the total number between 2000-16.
quote:
* The four true freshmen starters were the most in the nation to start the 2017 season
quote:
* Against BYU, 17 true freshmen saw action for the most by an LSU team in a season opener since at least 1995.
quote:
* The following is a list of true freshmen who have played this season: QB Myles Brennan, TE/F Tory Carter, LB K’Lavon Chaisson, RG Saahdiq Charles, OG Austin Deculus, FS Grant Delpit, RB Clyde Edwards-Helaire, DE Neil Farrell Jr., S Todd Harris Jr., OG Ed Ingram, WR Justin Jefferson, CB Jontre Kirklin, WR Racey McMath, WR Mannie Netherly, LB Jacob Phillips, LB Patrick Queen, WR JaCoby Stevens, LB Tyler Taylor, DE Justin Thomas, CB Kary Vincent Jr.
quote:
Twenty-One First-Time Starters So Far in 2017
quote:
Most True Freshmen Starters by Year Since 2005
2017
8
This post was edited on 2/12/18 at 11:59 am
Posted on 2/12/18 at 11:56 am to Tiger Ree
Yes
Posted on 2/12/18 at 11:56 am to Tiger Ree
So many 1st time starters?
I was having a conversation with a poster the other day. When I said LSU had started a lot of young players he said it was because of "ALL" the attrition. The only players I can think of that started and had left were Teuhema and Dodd. Dodd had only started a few games. Teuhema may not have played if he would have stayed because of being ineligible.
Was it attrition or injuries? Would Saahdiq Charles have played if Teuhema had of stayed or was it Malone's injury that caused him to play?
(This is for players who have started for the first time this season only and does not include players who spell the starters).
* Twenty-one Tigers have earned starts for the first time so far this season:
DE Ed Alexander, Sophomore
RB Nick Brossette, Junior
OG Garrett Brumfield, Junior
TE/F Tory Carter, True freshman
RG Saahdiq Charles, True freshman
LB K'Lavon Chaisson, True freshman
WR Drake Davis, Sophomore
S Grant Delpit, True freshman
WR Derrick Dillon, Sophomore
OL Ed Ingram, True freshman
DE Rashard Lawrence, Sophomore
DE Glen Logan, RS Freshman
OL Adrian Magee, Sophomore
S Eric Monroe, RS Freshman
TE Jamal Pettigrew, RS Freshman
WR JaCoby Stevens, True freshman
WR Stephen Sullivan, Sophomore
LB Tyler Taylor, True freshman
Nickel Kary Vincent Jr., True freshman
CB Andraez Williams, RS Freshman
LB Devin White, Sophomore
8 True Freshmen
4 RS Freshmen
7 Sophomores
2 Juniors
I was having a conversation with a poster the other day. When I said LSU had started a lot of young players he said it was because of "ALL" the attrition. The only players I can think of that started and had left were Teuhema and Dodd. Dodd had only started a few games. Teuhema may not have played if he would have stayed because of being ineligible.
Was it attrition or injuries? Would Saahdiq Charles have played if Teuhema had of stayed or was it Malone's injury that caused him to play?
(This is for players who have started for the first time this season only and does not include players who spell the starters).
* Twenty-one Tigers have earned starts for the first time so far this season:
DE Ed Alexander, Sophomore
RB Nick Brossette, Junior
OG Garrett Brumfield, Junior
TE/F Tory Carter, True freshman
RG Saahdiq Charles, True freshman
LB K'Lavon Chaisson, True freshman
WR Drake Davis, Sophomore
S Grant Delpit, True freshman
WR Derrick Dillon, Sophomore
OL Ed Ingram, True freshman
DE Rashard Lawrence, Sophomore
DE Glen Logan, RS Freshman
OL Adrian Magee, Sophomore
S Eric Monroe, RS Freshman
TE Jamal Pettigrew, RS Freshman
WR JaCoby Stevens, True freshman
WR Stephen Sullivan, Sophomore
LB Tyler Taylor, True freshman
Nickel Kary Vincent Jr., True freshman
CB Andraez Williams, RS Freshman
LB Devin White, Sophomore
8 True Freshmen
4 RS Freshmen
7 Sophomores
2 Juniors
This post was edited on 2/12/18 at 12:07 pm
Posted on 2/12/18 at 12:13 pm to Tiger Ree
The 2013 class would have been like RS Seniors. Rashard Robinson played as a Freshmen so its not like he would be here anyway.
Realistically we had 3 true freshmen start for a majority of the season:
Charles, Ingram and Delpit.
Chaisson, Taylor, Vincent and Carter started a hand full of games. Stephen’s Inyo start is VS Troy, and I think Chark logged a majority of the snaps, so it’s a start in a very technical sense
Were we young? Sometimes. But outside 1 or 2 positions it was intentional and we got better play out of the freshmen than we did the initial
Realistically we had 3 true freshmen start for a majority of the season:
Charles, Ingram and Delpit.
Chaisson, Taylor, Vincent and Carter started a hand full of games. Stephen’s Inyo start is VS Troy, and I think Chark logged a majority of the snaps, so it’s a start in a very technical sense
Were we young? Sometimes. But outside 1 or 2 positions it was intentional and we got better play out of the freshmen than we did the initial
This post was edited on 2/12/18 at 12:34 pm
Posted on 2/12/18 at 12:30 pm to Tiger Ree
Georgia played 21 freshman in their first game. Many teams play and start plenty of freshman in today's game, it's way more common than it used to be. Yes LSU had some youth playing but it was nothing out of the ordinary or nothing Miles didn't endure himself.
Posted on 2/12/18 at 12:32 pm to Tiger Ree
You know what? frick it, I agree with you Tiger Ree.
Level headed post. We should give O a lifetime contract because it's not his fault at all that he loses with "less talent" according to your logic. His teams are just young and not talented!!!!!
Give me a fricking break.
Level headed post. We should give O a lifetime contract because it's not his fault at all that he loses with "less talent" according to your logic. His teams are just young and not talented!!!!!
Give me a fricking break.
Posted on 2/12/18 at 12:33 pm to Tiger Ree
Nice dual attempt to argue that 0 doesn’t have talent to work with also excusing his poor recruiting.
Posted on 2/12/18 at 12:35 pm to Tiger Ree
Ponamsky, you're really stretching it now.
We had plenty of players with lots of experience starting, at almost every position. Sure, because of some injuries we had to play some younger guys, but for the most part, we had experience at every level. Also, tell me what successful school doesn't have to play a lot of freshmen.
It's up to the coaches to get those young players prepared to play and put them in a position to be successful. That's what separates good teams from great ones, the coaches.
We had plenty of players with lots of experience starting, at almost every position. Sure, because of some injuries we had to play some younger guys, but for the most part, we had experience at every level. Also, tell me what successful school doesn't have to play a lot of freshmen.
It's up to the coaches to get those young players prepared to play and put them in a position to be successful. That's what separates good teams from great ones, the coaches.
Posted on 2/12/18 at 12:37 pm to Dave England
Frankly, the game was won, until a D player decided to be a hero and rip the ball out instead of making the tackle.
ND moved the ball(passing) on our D pretty much most of the night
ND moved the ball(passing) on our D pretty much most of the night
Posted on 2/12/18 at 12:38 pm to rbdallas
quote:
ND moved the ball(passing) on our D pretty much most of the night
They had 216 passing yards...
Basically they only moved the ball on the last 2 drives.
Posted on 2/12/18 at 12:43 pm to Tiger Ree
quote:
Was LSU more talented than ND? Was LSU realy a young team? So many 1st time starters?
Was LSU more talented than ND?
In the "Orgeron was also asked if he felt his program was on the rise" thread a poster stated "LSU's average recruiting class over the last 5 years (2013-2017) is 4th best in the country. ND's is 8th."
I looked at LSU's 24/7 classes from 2013 through 2016. I mainly went off of memory and came up with the list below of 4 & 5-star players who had left. I had actually missed Xavier Lewis in the original post and added him here. So this list could still be missing some and I didn't list the 3-stars who have left the program.
Some of LSU's 2013 4-stars:
Jeryl Brazil
Hayden Rettig
John Diarse
Avery Peterson
Anthony Jennings
Melvin Jones
Maquedius Bain
Andy Dodd
Rashard Robinson
Some of LSU's 2014 4-stars:
Clifton Garrett 5-star *****
Brandon Harris
Trey Quinn
Jevonte Domond
Tony Upchurch
Travonte Valentine
Some of LSU's 2015 4-stars:
Tyron Johnson 5-star *****
Maea Teuhema 5-star *****
Chidi Valentine-Okeke
Xavier Lewis
Jazz Ferguson
2016 includes Saivion Smith and Willie Allen.
What do these guys have in common?
They were 4-stars or higher. A bunch of 3's have left also.
They were not on LSU's team this year.
The reason they were not on the team was not because they had graduated.
LSU has lost three 5-stars and 19 4-stars from those classes.
If they re-graded LSU's classes I wonder where the classes would rank today? how much is a 5-star worth, 3 spots? If LSU had signed Surtain would they have been #12 or even higher? How much is 2 or 3 four stars worth to a class ranking?
I realize every team's class would also need to be "re-ranked" but was just curious how these LSU classes that everyone (including myself) was so excited about would look today if everything else remained static.
How accurate are the rankings and how much faith do you have in them?
LSU's best cornerback - Greedy was rated as the 16th best player in the 2016 class. He was rated as the 4th best defensive back. How does the 16th best player in one class all of a sudden become one of the top 3 or 4 players on an entire team if the rankings are half-arse accurate?
Whether correct or not, LSU's best receiver this year - the guy who showed out in the senior bowl - DJ Chark was the 19th rated recruit and a 3-star in his class. Russell Gage the 2nd best receiver on the team was rated three spots lower in the same class. Was that because of the rankings being incorrect or was LSU's WR's just not that good this year?
Posted on 2/12/18 at 12:50 pm to Brazos
quote:
Yes LSU had some youth playing but it was nothing out of the ordinary or nothing Miles didn't endure himself.
From the LSU website that was in the post above:
first true freshman to start a season opener on the offensive line since at least World War II.
The four true freshmen who started the season opener matched the total number between 2000-16.
17 true freshmen saw action for the most by an LSU team in a season opener since at least 1995.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Unless Miles was at LSU since WWII and in 1995 I don't think your statement is accurate.
Posted on 2/12/18 at 12:52 pm to Tiger Ree
quote:i hope Goebbels is paying you well
Tiger Ree
Posted on 2/12/18 at 12:54 pm to Bottom9
quote:
You know what? frick it, I agree with you Tiger Ree.
Level headed post. We should give O a lifetime contract because it's not his fault at all that he loses with "less talent" according to your logic. His teams are just young and not talented!!!!!
Give me a fricking break.
Are you charging the LSU head coach rent for all the space he is occupying in your mind?
Where did I make one mention of Coach Eaux? This is information from 24/7 and the official website of LSU athletics. It's not left or right leaning, just unadulterated facts.
If it affects you in a bad way maybe you should take a step back.
Posted on 2/12/18 at 12:55 pm to Tiger Ree
These or factoids at best
Propaganda at worse
Why does it matter that we started moeenin the opener of 2/4 of them didn’t start 3 games later?
Why does it matter that we haven’t had a OL start in the opener since WWII.
If you said LSU hasn’t had a freshmen start on the OL since WWII that would mean more.
Propaganda at worse
Why does it matter that we started moeenin the opener of 2/4 of them didn’t start 3 games later?
Why does it matter that we haven’t had a OL start in the opener since WWII.
If you said LSU hasn’t had a freshmen start on the OL since WWII that would mean more.
Posted on 2/12/18 at 12:56 pm to Tiger Ree
quote:
Some of LSU's 2013 4-stars:
Jeryl Brazil
Hayden Rettig
John Diarse
Avery Peterson
Anthony Jennings
Melvin Jones
Maquedius Bain
Andy Dodd
Rashard Robinson
Most of these guys wouldnt have been on last year's team anyway. Only if they red shirted AND came back for their 5th year.
quote:
Some of LSU's 2014 4-stars:
Clifton Garrett 5-star *****
Brandon Harris
Trey Quinn
Jevonte Domond
Tony Upchurch
Travonte Valentine
Some of these guys wouldnt have been on the team either, unless they stayed 4 years. I could be wrong on this, but I dont think Valentine would have had eligibility last year.
Also, you would have to look at who ND lost to transfers. Transfers happen at every program, not just LSU. Off the top of my head, ND has had two highly rated QBs transfer in recent years.
Posted on 2/12/18 at 12:57 pm to Dave England
quote:
Nice dual attempt to argue that 0 doesn’t have talent to work with also excusing his poor recruiting.
The only recruiting class on the list that he was involved with was in 2016. Frank Wilson was the RC for the class.
Your hatred blinds you, so let me just state that the information posted is not to knock or prop someone up or down.
Posted on 2/12/18 at 12:57 pm to Tiger Ree
quote:
Was LSU more talented than ND?
I'd have to see a similar list of transfers and all that compiled for ND
And I believe they were without their top 3 receiving targets in that game also?
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