re: Trent Johnsons record over the last three seasons (including today]

How long are you guys wanting to give Trent? One guy suggested TEN YEARS. TEN YEARS OF THIS?

frick no not 10 years (not guaranteed), but if he improves by 5 or 6 wins this year over last (thats 8 or 9 SEC wins) then he at least should get next year. Rebuilding LSU (and no LSU was not "built" under Brady, we had a few good teams b/c of sheer talent coming in, but were mediocre to bad for the most part).

If TJ wins say 8 this year and makes the NIT, then I'd want 9+ wins next year, and the NCAA. What's so wrong about that? Can he get it done? I don't know (no one does, but his history says yes).

What is so wrong with not wanting to fire a guy right this very second. We are 2-5 and all 5 of those losses were expected by anyone with any clue about SEC basketball this year.

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If gathers is here next winter I think it will and should be a no excuses type situation for TJ.

He'd have 3 legit bigs, and a good starting point, and a guy in Morgan who I think is going to be a really good 2. Stringer slides to the bench where he probably belongs and that ought to be a very good team.

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I agree with all. I'd like to get a backup point in case Hickey gets hurt but other than that, if we get Gathers in with Morgan and get everyone who is eligible back healthy, IMHO no excuse for not making the tournament.

And I think it would be fair to hold Trent accountable to that.

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How long are you guys wanting to give Trent? One guy suggested TEN YEARS. TEN YEARS OF THIS?

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I said the rebuilding of the LSU program (properly) will take 5-10 years, whether we do that with Johnson or start over with somebody else.

If we show improvement this year (and we have on the court, it needs to translate to wins in the second half of the SEC schedule), and we finish 17-13, 18-12, 19-11, you let Trent keep building.

The only way I could get behind a change is if the team closes up shop this year.

Not winning is not ideal. Not trying is unacceptable.

I come off as pro-TJ, but I'm actually just more anti-coaching carousel.

Think of this analogy: Brown bankrupted the program at the end. Brady took what little money was left and bought scratch-off tickets. He'd hit a winner every now and then, but for the most part the team was pretty bad in between. We had the bling, but we weren't paying our bills.

At some point, we're going to have to get an honest job, save money, etc. If any of you have ever gone from being irresponsible with money to being "good" with money, it's an extremely difficult and uncomfortable process. You have to really start from scratch.

Rebuilding this program is very similar.

Some poster has been talking shite about how "mediocre" Mississippi State is, and I how I defend them. But you know what? Since 1993 (when the LSU program hit bottom) State averaged about 20 wins a season, is 40 games better than .500 every year in the SEC. More importantly, they're never HORRIBLE, they've had two coaches in about 30 years, and they're usually in the NCAAs or the NIT (which means they're at least in the running for an NCAA spot). They've done it with ONE NBA veteran (Dampier, and that was 15 years ago) and a bunch of cup of coffee NBA guys (Dontae Jones, Mario Austin, Lawrence Roberts, Derrick Zimmerman.)

That kind of stability is the epitome of building a program. I'd take a guaranteed 18-23 wins a year, two NCAAs and an NIT every four years, etc. over two shite seasons followed by a trip to the Sweet 16, followed by two more shite seasons.

State has built a PROGRAM over the last 20+ years. We have a LONG way to go to build ours.

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You have to really start from scratch.

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What has Trent done in 3 years with his players?

What has he done?

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What has Trent done in 3 years with his players?

What has he done?

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I'll frame it a different way.

Would you be willing to hire ANOTHER coach, if it meant we had to win 10, 12, 14, 16, 18 games over five consecutive years to build an actual program?

Look at our SEC wins since 1993 (and I'll use the SEC schedule because it's a more consistent barometer):

5, 6, 4, 3 (Brown to Brady), 2, 4, 12, 2, 6, 8, 8, 12, 14, 5, 6 (Pierre/Brady to Johnson), 13, 2, 3, ?

Look at State's (sorry to harp on them... but they're pretty consistent):

9, 12, 10, 6, 4 (Williams to Stansbury transition), 8, 5, 7, 10, 9, 14, 9, 5, 8, 12, 9, 9, 9, ?

ETA: (I'll add Florida since 1993, for comparison)

12, 8, 6 (Kruger to Donovan), 5, 6, 10, 12, 12, 10, 12, 9, 12, 10, 13, 8, 9, 9, 13, ?

Do you see the difference?

There's no +/- 10 game swings in those programs. Change from year in, year out is 2 or 3 games one way or the other. So would I be satisfied, if Trent won 2, 3, 6 (this year, though I think we'll win more) and 8-9(next year) SEC games over the first four years with "his" players? Absolutely I'd be happy.

We haven't been a consistently good program since the late 80's - early 90's. That's almost a quarter century ago.

At this point, we're late 90s/early 2000s Alabama football, longing for the ghost of Bear Bryant.

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Rebuilding LSU basketball (properly) is a 5-10 year project minimum.

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Been drinking? It's a helluva lot easier to turn a basketball team around than football....and it can be done in a 2-3yr time frame if you can recruit.

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It's a helluva lot easier to turn a basketball team around than football

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He didn't say turn the program around, he said build one. Building a program and turning one around are two very different things

With the offense Trent is running and his refusal to eliminate the horrific shot selection he is going to have to totally outtalent teams to beat them. In his fourth year I see no evidence that he will be able to recruit enough great players to outtalent the entire SEC!

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But some clowns still think he deserves to stay.

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And some clowns want him fired right now even though that'd just set back the program another 2-3 years.