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Theory About Expectations vs Reality
Posted on 10/6/23 at 8:54 am
Posted on 10/6/23 at 8:54 am
In 2020 Brody Miller talked about a theory of finding success too fast and how it can actually be detrimental to a coach due to fanbase expectations vs the reality of where the program actually is.
The theory is that when a coach takes over a broken program, they have to build a solid foundation in order to have sustained success over a period of time. Meaning they need to have backups that are ready to take over for starters when the starters graduate or leave. BUT in some cases, like 2019, the pieces fall into place for immediate success before a proper foundation is put in place. What this leads to is players you were going to count on as foundational pieces moving forward leaving earlier than you expected and leaving gaps in your roster.
Because the coach had success quickly, the fanbase then has an expectation that the program is at a certain level and should stay that way. So when foundational pieces leave and there aren't new foundational pieces to replace them you get 2020 LSU and the fanbase is unhappy.
The Coach O program was the example that Brody gave because that was the team he was covering at the time but I don't think its a perfect example of this theory because O was bound to fail after 2019. He kinda lucked into having the right DC and having a selfless OC that knew he needed help and identified the help he needed. Plus he had burrow and 2 of the top 5 WRs in the NFL.
BUT I do think this theory works for BK. He kind of lucked out that we had a few really good pieces on defense like BJ Ojulari and Jay Ward. He also lucked into his transfers all coming in and playing well. On top of that he also found a super star freshman in Harold Perkins. With this group he was able to beat Bama and win the west in year one which set the fanbase's expectations really high for year 2. The issue is that the defense lost almost everyone and the foundation wasn't in place yet to replace so many playmakers.
My point isn't that BK gets a pass and this defensive performance is acceptable. My point is that having success so quickly probably set BK up to disappoint the fanbase in year 2. He seemingly pressed all the same buttons that worked in 2022 but they aren't working as well in 2023 (defensively).
The good news is that your team doesn't have to be stagnant and just improving this defensive unit by 2 or 3 additional stops per game will probably be enough to win most if not all of the remaining games on the schedule and possibly even win the SEC championship. Will that happen? We will have to tune in tomorrow and find out.
The theory is that when a coach takes over a broken program, they have to build a solid foundation in order to have sustained success over a period of time. Meaning they need to have backups that are ready to take over for starters when the starters graduate or leave. BUT in some cases, like 2019, the pieces fall into place for immediate success before a proper foundation is put in place. What this leads to is players you were going to count on as foundational pieces moving forward leaving earlier than you expected and leaving gaps in your roster.
Because the coach had success quickly, the fanbase then has an expectation that the program is at a certain level and should stay that way. So when foundational pieces leave and there aren't new foundational pieces to replace them you get 2020 LSU and the fanbase is unhappy.
The Coach O program was the example that Brody gave because that was the team he was covering at the time but I don't think its a perfect example of this theory because O was bound to fail after 2019. He kinda lucked into having the right DC and having a selfless OC that knew he needed help and identified the help he needed. Plus he had burrow and 2 of the top 5 WRs in the NFL.
BUT I do think this theory works for BK. He kind of lucked out that we had a few really good pieces on defense like BJ Ojulari and Jay Ward. He also lucked into his transfers all coming in and playing well. On top of that he also found a super star freshman in Harold Perkins. With this group he was able to beat Bama and win the west in year one which set the fanbase's expectations really high for year 2. The issue is that the defense lost almost everyone and the foundation wasn't in place yet to replace so many playmakers.
My point isn't that BK gets a pass and this defensive performance is acceptable. My point is that having success so quickly probably set BK up to disappoint the fanbase in year 2. He seemingly pressed all the same buttons that worked in 2022 but they aren't working as well in 2023 (defensively).
The good news is that your team doesn't have to be stagnant and just improving this defensive unit by 2 or 3 additional stops per game will probably be enough to win most if not all of the remaining games on the schedule and possibly even win the SEC championship. Will that happen? We will have to tune in tomorrow and find out.
This post was edited on 10/6/23 at 9:01 am
Posted on 10/6/23 at 9:00 am to Bert Macklin FBI
Great post I agree with everything you said. Losing to those faux high society losers in Oxford sucks so much though and is gonna continue to piss me tf off for the next 12 months just like the Aggie loss did last year.
Posted on 10/6/23 at 9:01 am to lsudave1
quote:
Losing to those faux high society losers in Oxford sucks so much though and is gonna continue to piss me tf off for the next 12 months just like the Aggie loss did last year.
Agreed 100%. Like I said, its not acceptable to be THAT bad on defense no matter who you lose.
Posted on 10/6/23 at 9:08 am to Bert Macklin FBI
Sound logic, good reasoning, acceptable formatting and grammar.
This doesn’t belong here.
This doesn’t belong here.
Posted on 10/6/23 at 9:11 am to Bert Macklin FBI
So Nick Saban has been lucky for the last 20 years. Got it.
Posted on 10/6/23 at 9:17 am to Flightnclouds
quote:
So Nick Saban has been lucky for the last 20 years. Got it.
No. You obviously don't have good comprehension skills. Nick Saban went 6-6 in year 1 and then went 12-2 and then 14-0 for his first NC at Bama. Then his program took a step back to 10-3 before they went on their HUGE run.
The step back was because they didn't fully have the foundation set yet. The HUGE run was because the foundation was in place to replace key contributors every time one left.
Had Saban won it all in year 2, a bunch of guys might have left and year 3 would have suffered the same as year 4 did. But once the foundation was in place, they were in position to susatin success over a larger period of time.
Posted on 10/6/23 at 9:23 am to Bert Macklin FBI
quote:
My point isn't that BK gets a pass and this defensive performance is acceptable. My point is that having success so quickly probably set BK up to disappoint the fanbase in year 2. He seemingly pressed all the same buttons that worked in 2022 but they aren't working as well in 2023 (defensively).
I think it is great that BK went 10-4 in year one because an 8-5 or 7-5 season is unacceptable. Kelly was paid 100 Million to win 10 games a year, compete for titles, and win a couple.
Posted on 10/6/23 at 9:27 am to LSUTitan99
quote:
I think it is great that BK went 10-4 in year one
Yeah I don't think anyone is complaining about winning the west. The point isn't that he shouldn't have won games in year 1. Its that the expectation that the program that had 39 scholarship players when he took over was going to be playoff contenders immediately going forward was probably a bit too optimistic given where we were after 2021. Replacing 80% of the defense should have been a red flag but we all brushed it off because they were able to do it the year before.
quote:
Kelly was paid 100 Million to win 10 games a year, compete for titles, and win a couple.
He is still paid to do that but even Kirby Smart and Nick Saban took a few years to get it rolling like they have.
The point isn't that we shouldn't strive for the goal to be 10+ wins per game, the point is that its a process to get the roster to a point where that is a reality every year.
This post was edited on 10/6/23 at 9:30 am
Posted on 10/6/23 at 9:33 am to Bert Macklin FBI
quote:
The point isn't that we shouldn't strive for the goal to be 10+ wins per game, the point is that its a process to get the roster to a point where that is a reality every year.
With our obvious recruiting trajectory, does it appear the process is in place to reach that goal of 10+ wins a year?
I suppose the path will become more in focus after this weekend.
Posted on 10/6/23 at 9:35 am to Bert Macklin FBI
Kelly told us this team was a year away, but it seems more than that
Posted on 10/6/23 at 9:43 am to Gus007
quote:
With our obvious recruiting trajectory, does it appear the process is in place to reach that goal of 10+ wins a year?
I am going to be completely honest. BK has to recruit some guys like Wingo and Maason Smith to come back for another year or this defense will be heavily dependent on the portal again. It probably will be portal dependent either way.
But we do have a few pieces at every level that should improve going forward. Womack at DE, Perkins and Weeks at LB, Harris and Welch at CB, and Yaites and Toviano at Safety.
But it all depends on development. Sure we would love to have 5 star guys that come in and dominate but its not like we have all terrible players in our recruiting class. There are a lot of nice pieces that easily could develop into a Mo Claiborne or Malik Nabers type of impact guys.
Now thats the purple and gold glasses optimistic outlook. We also could have our juniors leave for the NFL despite lack luster seasons and have guys transfer away and have our guys not develop and have new guys not be as good as we thought. SO really only time will tell.
Posted on 10/6/23 at 9:44 am to Bert Macklin FBI
Texas A&M could win the west which is upsetting
Posted on 10/6/23 at 9:47 am to Bert Macklin FBI
Excellent post.
Also to footnote, CBK has pointed out concerns and deficiencies early and often, trying to keep expectations more grounded, which is almost entirely ignored by some folks wanting the moon and stars immediately.
Also to footnote, CBK has pointed out concerns and deficiencies early and often, trying to keep expectations more grounded, which is almost entirely ignored by some folks wanting the moon and stars immediately.
Posted on 10/6/23 at 9:56 am to Bert Macklin FBI
quote:
actually be detrimental to a coach due to fanbase expectations vs the reality of where the program actually is.
You can see this with Texas.
Tom Herman went to the sugar bowl and went 10-4 his second year. That set the expectation that this was the average… led to him being fired for going 7-3.
Sark has done the opposite.
5-7
8-5
5-0….
He has built them up and the Texas fanbase had tempered expectations going into the year.
Posted on 10/6/23 at 9:59 am to Bert Macklin FBI
CBK has been trying to temper expectations but many talking heads have expressed that LSU could compete for a National Championship this year based off of last year’s success.
Posted on 10/6/23 at 10:01 am to Bert Macklin FBI
quote:
Theory About Expectations vs Reality
How the team responds to this is going to say a lot about where the program is at under Brian Kelly. I do think Kelly is going to make a lot of adjustments and changes after the season and the team is going to be very good the next two seasons in 2024 and 2025 but how the team responds from last week is going to say a lot about where the team and program are.
Posted on 10/6/23 at 10:12 am to IM_4_LSU
quote:
How the team responds to this is going to say a lot about where the program is at under Brian Kelly.
I agree. If he gets them to fight for the season and improve enough on defense we are still looking at a 9 to 10 win season. This will allow us to keep/gain momentum in recruiting and have some momentum going into next season.
If the bottom falls out and the defense remains as bad as they were against OM then we are looking at limping to a 7 to 8 win year and it'll sap alot of the energy out of the program.
If the worst case scenario happens, I don't think it means we are doomed to be bad for eternity but it does take a 3 year plan and make it a 5 year plan. It would just depend on Woodward staying the course with Kelly.
Posted on 10/6/23 at 10:25 am to GeauxHouston
quote:
can see this with Texas. Tom Herman went to the sugar bowl and went 10-4 his second year. That set the expectation that this was the average… led to him being fired for going 7-3. Sark has done the opposite. 5-7 8-5 5-0…. He has built them up and the Texas fanbase had tempered expectations going into the year.
Exactly and it’s also why programs like Florida are suffering over an extended period to be consistent. The hire a coach, in year 2 or 3 he has a good year, he takes a step back the following season, they fire him, rinse, repeat.
Posted on 10/6/23 at 10:37 am to CleanSlate
A slow steady pace eventually wins the race.
Posted on 10/6/23 at 11:11 am to Bert Macklin FBI
LSU fans always have unreasonable expectations
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