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Message
re: The real issue with Miles and QB position
Posted on 8/5/15 at 4:44 pm to Rickdaddy4188
Posted on 8/5/15 at 4:44 pm to Rickdaddy4188
quote:
3. Our qb play always sucks.
no it hasnt. We had good qb play in 2006,07,09,2011,&2013.
I'm hoping you meant '10 instead of '09. I would agree that we had reasonably good QB play from both JJ and JL in 2010, but not 2009.
1
Posted on 8/5/15 at 4:48 pm to RedTigerRulz
I agree with most of what y'all are saying... from 2006-07, the choice of a quarterback was obvious... in 2008.. we literally went through every quarterback on the roster due to dismissal or injury. And despite what many would have you believe, Jefferson played extremely well as a sophomore in 2009, although he had the unfortunate luck of being paired with the worst offensive line and rushing attack I've witnessed in many years.
2010... I don't know what the hell happened in 2010. Gary Crowton decided he wanted to mold an athletic pro-style quarterback into an option quarterback... with predictable results.
Where I disagree is that Jarrett Lee was going to be Miles's guy in 2011.. at no point prior to that November game did I question whether Miles would reestablish Jefferson at the starter.... then that 2/7 24 yards 2 INT game happened and Jefferson took it the rest of the way.
For the record, I'm of the opinion that this supports your theory, although in a different manner. In 2011, Lee was the guy until he had a massive meltdown and in 2014, Jennings was the guy until he had a massive meltdown.. and then Harris did the same.
Whomever is named starter in 2015 should not fear losing that role unless they essentially beg for it to happen (Lee v. Alabama) (Jennings v. NMST) (Harris v. Auburn).
2010... I don't know what the hell happened in 2010. Gary Crowton decided he wanted to mold an athletic pro-style quarterback into an option quarterback... with predictable results.
Where I disagree is that Jarrett Lee was going to be Miles's guy in 2011.. at no point prior to that November game did I question whether Miles would reestablish Jefferson at the starter.... then that 2/7 24 yards 2 INT game happened and Jefferson took it the rest of the way.
For the record, I'm of the opinion that this supports your theory, although in a different manner. In 2011, Lee was the guy until he had a massive meltdown and in 2014, Jennings was the guy until he had a massive meltdown.. and then Harris did the same.
Whomever is named starter in 2015 should not fear losing that role unless they essentially beg for it to happen (Lee v. Alabama) (Jennings v. NMST) (Harris v. Auburn).
Posted on 8/5/15 at 4:49 pm to PosiFan59
You must have missed the MSU and AL games in 2011 if you think JL should have started over JJ. You also probably missed the entire 2008 season.
Miles would not talk about his decision on JJ over JL because he would not throw a player under the bus. Miles will never do that. If the fans don't get it, it is on them.
Miles would not talk about his decision on JJ over JL because he would not throw a player under the bus. Miles will never do that. If the fans don't get it, it is on them.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 4:50 pm to Geauxgurt
quote:
He then gave Harris one shot and the second things went South, he turned back to AJ and never looked back just like with JJ years before.
ummm....Harris got injured. he had to go back to AJ
Posted on 8/5/15 at 4:50 pm to RedTigerRulz
quote:
What geauxgurt said exactly!
close...but not really
Posted on 8/5/15 at 5:03 pm to Nuts4LSU
quote:
He was on the field on the final play of the game. Twice.
Touche'
Posted on 8/5/15 at 5:09 pm to Choctaw
People who think JLee was better than JJ are the same ones who think BH was ready last year (and conveniently forget about that ankle injury).
There is literally no evidence to suggest that Les doesn't play the guy who gives them "the best chance to win." Sorry if it hurts some of your delicate sensibilities, but last year that guy was AJ.
No he wasn't good. But he was all we had at the time.
No one is arguing that BH isn't the more physically gifted of the pair. And if he knows the book and he is comfortable calling plays, he will get the start.
I don't know why you people really think Les would sacrifice a job which pays him millions of dollars a year because he "likes" one guy.
There is literally no evidence to suggest that Les doesn't play the guy who gives them "the best chance to win." Sorry if it hurts some of your delicate sensibilities, but last year that guy was AJ.
No he wasn't good. But he was all we had at the time.
No one is arguing that BH isn't the more physically gifted of the pair. And if he knows the book and he is comfortable calling plays, he will get the start.
I don't know why you people really think Les would sacrifice a job which pays him millions of dollars a year because he "likes" one guy.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 5:20 pm to GeauxToBed
I wonder why Les Miles never listens to the LSU fanbase? 
Posted on 8/5/15 at 5:21 pm to Guava Jelly
1000% with you Guava
Posted on 8/5/15 at 5:21 pm to Geauxgurt
I'm the furthest thing from a sunshine pumper, but...
I think you could say this about just about any coach. By far the ideal situation is to pick a starter, stick with him and hope he performs well. If you have to make a change at the QB position while the season is in progress, you're probably in trouble. Sometimes you don't have a choice, but you're almost always better off not doing it. And yes, I remember 2011, but still most coaches try to avoid changing QBs in midseason.
I seriously doubt that is a factor, at least not to the extent of losing games with one guy that we could win with the other just to avoid admitting being wrong. I think pretty much any coach makes a change when HE thinks he's made a mistake, and they probably don't care whether fans are out there saying "I told you so".
True, those were obvious choices that anybody would have made.
This is all true but I don't know if that was the plan from the beginning. I wouldn't be surprised if Les was hoping/thinking that Hatch would be serviceable for a few games while Lee got up to speed and that our defense could carry us through that early part of the season. But Hatch got hurt before Lee was ready and the defense fell apart and it all came crashing down. He had to let Lee loose before he was ready because the defense was letting teams get up 20-0, 21-7, 21-3, etc. and we had to play catch up. I really don't know how else he could have handled the QB situation that year, which was thrust upon him when Perrilloux flamed out. He gets a pass for the bad QB play that year, but that was seven years ago. There's been plenty of time to fix things since them. Also, he is responsible for the defense that year and the failed co-coordinator experiment.
Agreed on 2009, but then again, Lee obviously wasn't the answer at that point (remember the La. Tech game that year?), so what else could he do? And this was still only one year removed from losing RP, so not having the problem fixed by then was understandable.
Disagree here. I think he felt confident in both QBs in 2010, and he used both extensively in several big games that year (Tennessee, Auburn, Florida and Alabama come to mind).
This again is true, but we will never know how Harris would have performed if he had stayed the starter after the Auburn game. Maybe the light bulb would have come on and he would have won the Bama and Arkie games. Maybe his injury (which wasn't publicized at the time) would have held him back and we would have lost a couple more games than we did.
In any event, the fact that he did make the change to Harris for the Auburn game and changed back to Jennings after the Auburn game contradicts your point that...
Like I said above, ALL coaches hate to have to change QBs during the season. They would all love to name a starter in preseason and have him play well all year. You try to make that happen and you only make the change if you really have to. And usually if it gets to that point, you're in trouble anyway no matter what you do. Like we were.
The legitimate complaint about Miles for last year was not that he chose the wrong QB, but that Jennings and Harris were all he had to choose from. Every team knows that players only play for 4 years (or less) and that you are going to have to replace a starter at every position every two or three years at least. It's the job of the coaches to be able to do that without having the bottom totally fall out at the position, especially THAT position. For whatever reason, it seems whenever we lose a good QB (Flynn, Perrilloux, JLJJ2011, Mett), it takes us longer to get another one playing well than it takes other teams. Some teams/coaches seem to get at least serviceable play out of the QB position pretty much every year. Meyer at UF and OSU, Saban at Alabama, Richt, Jimbo, etc. seem to be able to replace a lost starter at QB and still have at least a decent performance from the position the next year. Maybe we'll get to that point with Cam, but the jury is still out on that.
That is yet to be seen. I think he'll try to pick the best one as starter and then try to stick with him as long as he can. That's what he's done in the past, and it's what pretty much all coaches do. Maybe Steve Spurrier is the the exception to this, but otherwise, there aren't many.
quote:
Les hates making changes from his initial QB picks
I think you could say this about just about any coach. By far the ideal situation is to pick a starter, stick with him and hope he performs well. If you have to make a change at the QB position while the season is in progress, you're probably in trouble. Sometimes you don't have a choice, but you're almost always better off not doing it. And yes, I remember 2011, but still most coaches try to avoid changing QBs in midseason.
quote:
he is quite fickle when it comes to being shown to be wrong. He's normal in that regards, as no one likes to proven to have been wrong.
I seriously doubt that is a factor, at least not to the extent of losing games with one guy that we could win with the other just to avoid admitting being wrong. I think pretty much any coach makes a change when HE thinks he's made a mistake, and they probably don't care whether fans are out there saying "I told you so".
quote:
He inherited JR and Flynn for his first 3 years. Those were givens with Jimbo as OC and then Flynn as a 5th year SR.
True, those were obvious choices that anybody would have made.
quote:
When his first real task of picking a QB came to fruition he was stuck with the dismissal of Perilloux. He chose Hatch despite his limitations and Lee only took over as starter once Hatch got knocked out against Auburn. Then he didn't put in JJ until Lee was knocked out against Ole Miss no matter Lee's struggles.
This is all true but I don't know if that was the plan from the beginning. I wouldn't be surprised if Les was hoping/thinking that Hatch would be serviceable for a few games while Lee got up to speed and that our defense could carry us through that early part of the season. But Hatch got hurt before Lee was ready and the defense fell apart and it all came crashing down. He had to let Lee loose before he was ready because the defense was letting teams get up 20-0, 21-7, 21-3, etc. and we had to play catch up. I really don't know how else he could have handled the QB situation that year, which was thrust upon him when Perrilloux flamed out. He gets a pass for the bad QB play that year, but that was seven years ago. There's been plenty of time to fix things since them. Also, he is responsible for the defense that year and the failed co-coordinator experiment.
quote:
Then he only removed JJ when either he was injured (BAMA 09)
Agreed on 2009, but then again, Lee obviously wasn't the answer at that point (remember the La. Tech game that year?), so what else could he do? And this was still only one year removed from losing RP, so not having the problem fixed by then was understandable.
quote:
or things were completely dire (half the 2010 season)
Disagree here. I think he felt confident in both QBs in 2010, and he used both extensively in several big games that year (Tennessee, Auburn, Florida and Alabama come to mind).
quote:
Look back to last year, despite AJ's struggles much of the start of the season and his performance against MSU, Les put him back in until the NMSU game was atrocious for AJ and Harris was unbelievable. He then gave Harris one shot and the second things went South, he turned back to AJ and never looked back just like with JJ years before.
This again is true, but we will never know how Harris would have performed if he had stayed the starter after the Auburn game. Maybe the light bulb would have come on and he would have won the Bama and Arkie games. Maybe his injury (which wasn't publicized at the time) would have held him back and we would have lost a couple more games than we did.
In any event, the fact that he did make the change to Harris for the Auburn game and changed back to Jennings after the Auburn game contradicts your point that...
quote:
He hates change, period.
Like I said above, ALL coaches hate to have to change QBs during the season. They would all love to name a starter in preseason and have him play well all year. You try to make that happen and you only make the change if you really have to. And usually if it gets to that point, you're in trouble anyway no matter what you do. Like we were.
The legitimate complaint about Miles for last year was not that he chose the wrong QB, but that Jennings and Harris were all he had to choose from. Every team knows that players only play for 4 years (or less) and that you are going to have to replace a starter at every position every two or three years at least. It's the job of the coaches to be able to do that without having the bottom totally fall out at the position, especially THAT position. For whatever reason, it seems whenever we lose a good QB (Flynn, Perrilloux, JLJJ2011, Mett), it takes us longer to get another one playing well than it takes other teams. Some teams/coaches seem to get at least serviceable play out of the QB position pretty much every year. Meyer at UF and OSU, Saban at Alabama, Richt, Jimbo, etc. seem to be able to replace a lost starter at QB and still have at least a decent performance from the position the next year. Maybe we'll get to that point with Cam, but the jury is still out on that.
quote:
expect AJ to start or Harris to be on a very short leash at best like Lee in 2011.
That is yet to be seen. I think he'll try to pick the best one as starter and then try to stick with him as long as he can. That's what he's done in the past, and it's what pretty much all coaches do. Maybe Steve Spurrier is the the exception to this, but otherwise, there aren't many.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 6:09 pm to PosiFan59
Fans' thoughts do not count. It is a head coach decision, period. If the decision is bad it is on him. Give it up! He is the leader of the team, him only. If it is botched & he is fired so be it. He has a good track record IMO. For years Penn State was the same way. Fans wanted a "real running QB". Never got it because Paterno called the shots. Same goes with every HC.
In reality fans choice can count - several bad seasons & fans cry loud enough can lead to a coach dismissal. Do they worry - I doubt it.
In reality fans choice can count - several bad seasons & fans cry loud enough can lead to a coach dismissal. Do they worry - I doubt it.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 6:10 pm to PosiFan59
quote:
PosiFan59
Need to get a refund for that user name...
Posted on 8/5/15 at 6:31 pm to Rickdaddy4188
quote:
He was a good qb
Based on what??? The SECCG in which the D and running game bailed him out... Sure he got the MVP, but he really didn't do much else while here... And IMO Miles gave him way to many chances..........
quote:
you can't be a terrible qb and make a nfl roster as a qb
Sure The practice squad..........
He never played a down I a real NFL game... Quit trying so hard...RP was a huge failure based on what most said about his talent........Posted on 8/5/15 at 7:05 pm to PosiFan59
This horse has been dead, beaten, fossilized, dug up and here comes the stick again!!!!! Retard
Posted on 8/5/15 at 7:39 pm to Geauxgurt
quote:
Les hates making changes from his initial QB picks
No shite! Tell me what coach doesn't hate changing out his QB? That normally means something bad has happened. Do you expect they enjoy having something bad happen to their team?
quote:
despite AJ's struggles much of the start of the season and his performance against MSU, Les put him back in until the NMSU game was atrocious for AJ and Harris was unbelievable. He then gave Harris one shot
You do realize that the benching of a healthy Jennings by Miles five games into the season to go with a true freshman craps all over everything you have said to this point.
quote:
He then gave Harris one shot and the second things went South, he turned back to AJ
Harris was hurt at Auburn! Harris was hurt at Auburn! HARRIS WAS frickING HURT AT AUBURN!!! There is photo evidence of the injury and Harris has said he had an injury that limited his playing time. What's wrong with you people!
Posted on 8/5/15 at 7:58 pm to Rickdaddy4188
Yeah, JJ was great. His last game was particularly good. Moron.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 8:19 pm to LSU Groupee
It was not the very minor Grade 1 ankle sprain. He never missed practices the rest of the year or had any limited mobility. He said it "lingered" but that his preparation, not talent, was the reason he saw less playing time. Harris is very self-effacing, ready to take more blame than he deserves. The coaches finally took blame for Auburn and the conservative game plan. They did not utilize his explosive skills or script the playbook to match how he played in MSST and NMST with 3-5 WRs. Les Miles says Harris is Full go for Florida
Oct 8:
"He practiced half of Monday's practice and all of Tuesday's and Wednesday's practices," Miles said. Harris took 50% of the practice snaps the rest of the year. Flynn had a more severe high ankle sprain and missed a game and played the whole season on a gimpy ankle
Harris injured his right ankle in the game but said it had nothing to do with his availability afterward. He said there was no truth to the rumors he wore a walking boot on his injured ankle, that he wore the boot only for a day after the game.
"I felt ready to go in that (Florida) game; the opportunity didn't present itself," Harris said. "(It's) totally understandable. We won the game, that's what it's all about. We won, so there were no complaints on my end."
Oct 8:
quote:
Harris, who is coming off an ankle injury sustained in last Saturday's 41-7 loss at Auburn, will be "full go" for this weekend's game at Florida.
"He practiced half of Monday's practice and all of Tuesday's and Wednesday's practices," Miles said. Harris took 50% of the practice snaps the rest of the year. Flynn had a more severe high ankle sprain and missed a game and played the whole season on a gimpy ankle
Harris injured his right ankle in the game but said it had nothing to do with his availability afterward. He said there was no truth to the rumors he wore a walking boot on his injured ankle, that he wore the boot only for a day after the game.
"I felt ready to go in that (Florida) game; the opportunity didn't present itself," Harris said. "(It's) totally understandable. We won the game, that's what it's all about. We won, so there were no complaints on my end."
Posted on 8/5/15 at 8:34 pm to Nuts4LSU
quote:
I'm hoping you meant '10 instead of '09.
JJ's 2009 season is the 9th best passing season in lsu history.
JJ had a pretty good year in 2009.
61.5 completion %
2166 yards
17tds
7ints
137.2 qb rating
JJ finished in the top 5, in the sec, in qb rating and was 2nd in the sec in completion %.
Our 2009 passing game was decent.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 8:39 pm to PosiFan59
quote:
What is clearly apparent is that many LSU fans, myself included, aren't confident that there will be a fair QB battle between AJ and BH. Rather most believe AJ will start no matter what happens. This is not totally unfounded as we saw this played out before between JJ and JL. If Miles starts AJ most fans will still believe BH is the better QB which means Miles credibility is virtually zero. This really needs to be addressed by Miles but I really don't think he cares to do so. The end result is fan morale continues to decline which is not good for the program. I wish Miles would realize this and clearly demonstrate that whoever starts is the best QB.
You're implying that the coaches won't play the best player, because why would they do that again?
No the fans will ticked that Jennings (if it's him) is the best LSU can field and Harris hasn't stepped up or isn't as good as we thought.
Which is a horrible position to be in for top tier program that produces NFL by the truck load but we can't seem to find or develop a QB that most programs wish they had, - instead we have a QB that wouldn't be the starter at Vandy.
For this, the LSU are upset with Miles over...He has to own it, he is the Head Coach.
Harris would bring excitement hope and change for the fans point of view but if the Coaches don't think he is the guy, then he isn't the guy. it's that simple
Posted on 8/5/15 at 8:43 pm to dukke v
quote:
Based on what??
BASED ON RP'S 2007 STATS.
RP'S 2007 STATS
51/75
68.0 compl %
694 yards
9.3 yards per attempt
8 tds
2 ints
175.6 qb rating.
207 yards rushing
4.0 yards per carry
2 tds
quote:
The SECCG in which the D and running game bailed him out.
Once again you prove you don't know shite about football.
RYAN PERRILLOUX ' S SECCG STATS
20/30 passing
66.7 compl %
243 yards
139.0 qb rating
He was the SECCG MVP.
quote:
Sure The practice squad.......... He never played a down I a real NFL game... Quit trying so hard...RP was a huge failure based on what most said about his talent........
For the 1 millionth time. I don't have to try because I'm using FACTS to support my argument,not biased opinion. It's literally the easiest thing to do in a discussion. Provide facts.
You can't be a terrible qb and make a nfl practice squad. Come the frick on.
This post was edited on 8/5/15 at 8:52 pm
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