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Message
re: the onside kick
Posted on 9/7/10 at 4:52 pm to whiteyc777
Posted on 9/7/10 at 4:52 pm to whiteyc777
Post all the videos you can find where the onside kick receiver is WITHIN the 10 yd. zone and is being hit by a kicking team player BEFORE the receiving team player touches the ball to support your statement "it occurs on nearly onside kick attempt"
1
Posted on 9/7/10 at 4:53 pm to 62zip
quote:
Could you please give us the definition of a "block"?
TIA
Thanks for making my point. Seems kinda silly, huh?
-YTC
Posted on 9/7/10 at 4:53 pm to whiteyc777
quote:
Thanks for making my point. Seems kinda silly, huh?
I'm not making your point - I'm asking you a question - do you know the definition of a block?
Posted on 9/7/10 at 4:54 pm to tiger45br
quote:
Post all the videos you can find where the onside kick receiver is WITHIN the 10 yd. zone and is being hit by a kicking team player BEFORE the receiving team player touches the ball to support your statement "it occurs on nearly onside kick attempt"
Every guy on the field who is on the receiving team is a receiver. They are all eligible to receive the kick.
-YTC
Posted on 9/7/10 at 4:55 pm to whiteyc777
but they ALL are NOT attempting to receive the ball within the 10 yd. zone
Posted on 9/7/10 at 4:56 pm to 62zip
quote:
I'm not making your point - I'm asking you a question - do you know the definition of a block?
Legal interference with an opposing player to clear the path of the ball carrier.
-YTC
Posted on 9/7/10 at 4:56 pm to whiteyc777
quote:
Thanks for making my point. Seems kinda silly, huh?
He's being serious. And I'll give you a hint, his weekend attire of black and white is not because he's wearing a tux.
Posted on 9/7/10 at 4:57 pm to whiteyc777
quote:
Legal interference with an opposing player to clear the path of the ball carrier.
Care to try again?
Posted on 9/7/10 at 4:57 pm to tiger45br
quote:
but they ALL are NOT attempting to receive the ball within the 10 yd. zone
Whether or not they are attempting to receive the ball, they are still eligible receivers on a kick.
So, I have shown you clear video evidence of receivers being hit within the 10 yard zone. Anything else?
-YTC
Posted on 9/7/10 at 4:59 pm to 62zip
quote:
Care to try again?
Nope. My definition was pretty spot on. Unless, of course, you are referencing a "block" as something outside of football. That would bear no relevance to our discussion.
-YTC
Posted on 9/7/10 at 4:59 pm to whiteyc777
quote:
My definition was pretty spot on.
Posted on 9/7/10 at 5:00 pm to The_Pistol
FWIW this is straight from NCAA rules book I googled. The book does say 09-10 but I'm sure this hasn't changed
"SECTION 4. Opportunity To Catch a Kick
Interference With Opportunity
ARTICLE 1. A player of the receiving team within the boundary lines attempting
to catch a kick, and so located that he could have caught a free kick or a scrimmage
kick that is beyond the neutral zone, must be given an unimpeded opportunity to
catch the kick (A.R. 6-3-1-III, A.R. 6-4-1-V and A.R. 6-4-1-X).
a. This protection terminates when the kick touches the ground, when any player
of Team B muffs a scrimmage kick beyond the neutral zone, or when any
player of Team B muffs a free kick in the field of play or in the end zone (Rule
6-5-1-a) (A.R. 6-4-1-IV).
b. If interference with a potential receiver is the result of a player being blocked
by an opponent, it is not a foul.
c. It is an interference foul if the kicking team contacts the potential receiver
before, or simultaneous to, his first touching the ball (A.R. 6-4-1-II, III, VII and
IX). When in question, it is an interference foul.
PENALTY—For foul between the goal lines: Receiving team’s ball, first
down, 15 yards beyond the spot of the foul for an interference
foul [S33]. For foul behind the goal line: Award a touchback
and penalize from the succeeding spot. Flagrant offenders shall
be disqualified [S47]."
To me it looks like you cant hit on the other side of the neutral zone, but once the receiving team crosses into neutral zone it doesn't say they are protected, it doesn't say anything at all. So I'm sure they saw Blue in the neutral zone and thought there was no illegal hit. Besides the ball did touch the ground before UNC hit Blue. Either they got lucky or new the rule well.
"SECTION 4. Opportunity To Catch a Kick
Interference With Opportunity
ARTICLE 1. A player of the receiving team within the boundary lines attempting
to catch a kick, and so located that he could have caught a free kick or a scrimmage
kick that is beyond the neutral zone, must be given an unimpeded opportunity to
catch the kick (A.R. 6-3-1-III, A.R. 6-4-1-V and A.R. 6-4-1-X).
a. This protection terminates when the kick touches the ground, when any player
of Team B muffs a scrimmage kick beyond the neutral zone, or when any
player of Team B muffs a free kick in the field of play or in the end zone (Rule
6-5-1-a) (A.R. 6-4-1-IV).
b. If interference with a potential receiver is the result of a player being blocked
by an opponent, it is not a foul.
c. It is an interference foul if the kicking team contacts the potential receiver
before, or simultaneous to, his first touching the ball (A.R. 6-4-1-II, III, VII and
IX). When in question, it is an interference foul.
PENALTY—For foul between the goal lines: Receiving team’s ball, first
down, 15 yards beyond the spot of the foul for an interference
foul [S33]. For foul behind the goal line: Award a touchback
and penalize from the succeeding spot. Flagrant offenders shall
be disqualified [S47]."
To me it looks like you cant hit on the other side of the neutral zone, but once the receiving team crosses into neutral zone it doesn't say they are protected, it doesn't say anything at all. So I'm sure they saw Blue in the neutral zone and thought there was no illegal hit. Besides the ball did touch the ground before UNC hit Blue. Either they got lucky or new the rule well.
Posted on 9/7/10 at 5:00 pm to whiteyc777
quote:
Nope. My definition was pretty spot on. Unless, of course, you are referencing a "block" as something outside of football. That would bear no relevance to our discussion.
I was maybe hoping for the definition that one might find in the rule book.
Posted on 9/7/10 at 5:03 pm to whiteyc777
quote:
Blocking
ARTICLE 1. a. Blocking is obstructing an opponent by contacting him with
any part of the blocker’s body.
b. Pushing is blocking an opponent with open hands.
From that great rule book you quoted earlier...
Posted on 9/7/10 at 5:04 pm to Golfer
Oooops
Posted on 9/7/10 at 5:05 pm to Newgene
The crazy crap that is being posted in this thread is ridiculous.
I've played and watched a ton of football in my day and it most certainly legal to do what the UNC player did. You cannot interfere with a player trying to make a catch of a free kick, but you may once the ball hits the ground.
The object of the kicker is have the ball bounce as high in the air as possible so the kicking team can block as many players as possible and have your player recover the kick ten yards down field. This is the reason the ball is kicked into the ground. Once it hits the ground you may make contact with the receiving team, but may not make contact with the ball until it reaches 10 yards. The protection of the receiver is only of kicks that do not hit the ground (ie. you cannot fair catch a squib kick).
In this instance the LSU player was contacted in the neutral zone by the UNC player as he was making contact with the ball. After the LSU player made contact with the ball it is a live ball for recovery by the kicking team.
I'm pretty sure that I'm right, but it's just unusual that all of these things happened in this play.
I've played and watched a ton of football in my day and it most certainly legal to do what the UNC player did. You cannot interfere with a player trying to make a catch of a free kick, but you may once the ball hits the ground.
The object of the kicker is have the ball bounce as high in the air as possible so the kicking team can block as many players as possible and have your player recover the kick ten yards down field. This is the reason the ball is kicked into the ground. Once it hits the ground you may make contact with the receiving team, but may not make contact with the ball until it reaches 10 yards. The protection of the receiver is only of kicks that do not hit the ground (ie. you cannot fair catch a squib kick).
In this instance the LSU player was contacted in the neutral zone by the UNC player as he was making contact with the ball. After the LSU player made contact with the ball it is a live ball for recovery by the kicking team.
I'm pretty sure that I'm right, but it's just unusual that all of these things happened in this play.
Posted on 9/7/10 at 5:06 pm to 62zip
quote:
Oooops
I'm thinking he's gone...
Posted on 9/7/10 at 5:09 pm to whiteyc777
Whether or not they are attempting to receive the ball, they are still eligible receivers on a kick.
So, I have shown you clear video evidence of receivers being hit within the 10 yard zone. Anything else?
You have not shown any video evidence of what happened during the LSU-UNC game which was the point of discussion. Discussing this any further is pointless since you are not addressing what actually happened- a player in the process of receiving the kick within 10 yds. & being hit prior to touching the ball.
So, I have shown you clear video evidence of receivers being hit within the 10 yard zone. Anything else?
You have not shown any video evidence of what happened during the LSU-UNC game which was the point of discussion. Discussing this any further is pointless since you are not addressing what actually happened- a player in the process of receiving the kick within 10 yds. & being hit prior to touching the ball.
Posted on 9/7/10 at 5:10 pm to jldbassman77
quote:
SECTION 4. Opportunity To Catch a Kick Interference With Opportunity ARTICLE 1. A player of the receiving team within the boundary lines attempting to catch a kick, and so located that he could have caught a free kick or a scrimmage kick that is beyond the neutral zone, must be given an unimpeded opportunity to catch the kick (A.R. 6-3-1-III, A.R. 6-4-1-V and A.R. 6-4-1-X). a. This protection terminates when the kick touches the ground, when any player of Team B muffs a scrimmage kick beyond the neutral zone, or when any player of Team B muffs a free kick in the field of play or in the end zone (Rule 6-5-1-a) (A.R. 6-4-1-IV). b. If interference with a potential receiver is the result of a player being blocked by an opponent, it is not a foul. c. It is an interference foul if the kicking team contacts the potential receiver before, or simultaneous to, his first touching the ball (A.R. 6-4-1-II, III, VII and IX). When in question, it is an interference foul. PENALTY—For foul between the goal lines: Receiving team’s ball, first down, 15 yards beyond the spot of the foul for an interference foul [S33]. For foul behind the goal line: Award a touchback and penalize from the succeeding spot. Flagrant offenders shall be disqualified [S47]."
This keeps getting overlooked. You can hit anyone once the ball hits the ground. It has nothing to do with the neutral zone. Basically catch interference is waived if the ball hits the ground first.
Posted on 9/7/10 at 5:10 pm to DoubleDeuce
quote:
The crazy crap that is being posted in this thread is ridiculous.
I've played and watched a ton of football in my day and it most certainly legal to do what the UNC player did. You cannot interfere with a player trying to make a catch of a free kick, but you may once the ball hits the ground.
The object of the kicker is have the ball bounce as high in the air as possible so the kicking team can block as many players as possible and have your player recover the kick ten yards down field. This is the reason the ball is kicked into the ground. Once it hits the ground you may make contact with the receiving team, but may not make contact with the ball until it reaches 10 yards. The protection of the receiver is only of kicks that do not hit the ground (ie. you cannot fair catch a squib kick).
In this instance the LSU player was contacted in the neutral zone by the UNC player as he was making contact with the ball. After the LSU player made contact with the ball it is a live ball for recovery by the kicking team.
I'm pretty sure that I'm right, but it's just unusual that all of these things happened in this play.
But we're just idiots here...
-YTC
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