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Started By
Message
1
Posted on 8/11/18 at 12:17 pm to KamaCausey_LSU
quote:
Can you explain to me why it's considered tampering and not violation of protocol?
I would say that of the two sections of the rules, Fulton's actions seem to almost exactly fit the tampering clause.
I realize you want Fulton to not be punished. I feel the same way. But, I don't have to pretend that he didn't tamper...or pretend that he didn't admit to tampering.
quote:
At which point is it "an NCAA sample"? Have you ever done a piss test? I argue that until they put the tamper evident custody seal on the jar then it's not an NCAA sample and it's not tampering.
You can argue that all you want. They did argue it and lost.
Posted on 8/11/18 at 12:20 pm to DawgsLife
Please post all three by laws that were mentioned by Fulton's attorney so we can see what best fits the crime.
Posted on 8/11/18 at 12:25 pm to LSUNV
quote:
Our whole Athletic department is ran by a huge moron followed by a bunch of little ones
Not to be a grammar nazi or anything, but the correct verb conjugation there should have been, “done been ranned.”
Posted on 8/11/18 at 12:30 pm to doubleb
quote:
3.3. A student-athlete will be in breach of protocol and treated as if there was a positive test for a banned substance other than a street/illicit drug as de ned in Bylaw 31.2.3 if the student-athlete:
• refuses to sign the noti cation form or custody and control form; NOPE
• fails to arrive at the collection station without justi cation as determined by Drug Free Sport; NOPE
• fails to provide a urine specimen according to protocol; NOPE
• leaves the collection station without authorization from the certi ed collector before providing a specimen according to protocol; or NOPE
• attempts to alter the integrity of the collection process. YES
The certified collector will inform the student-athlete of these implications (in the presence of a witness) and record such. If the student-athlete is not available, the certi ed collector will notify the NCAA of cial responsible for administration of the event or an institutional representative
quote:
3.4. Tampering. A student-athlete who is involved in a case of clearly observed tampering with an NCAA drug-test sample YES, as documented per NCAA drug-testing protocol by a drug-testing crew member YES, shall be charged with the loss of a minimum of two seasons of competition in all sports and shall remain ineligible for all regular-season and postseason competition during the time period ending two calendar years (730 days) from the date of the tampering.
I don't know what the 3rd one is, but these are the 2 the attorney is continuously referencing.
Of the two, it seems that tampering is when it's clearly observed while the lesser charge is anything that doesn't meet that standard.
This post was edited on 8/11/18 at 12:36 pm
Posted on 8/11/18 at 12:30 pm to geauxtigahs87
quote:
What does the NCAA rulebook say about non-graduates transferring to other programs?
It says a lot of things. Can you say who you are talking about specifically? I mean, one rule does not cover every exception, but if you will give me specifics, I will dig and find out for you.
Posted on 8/11/18 at 12:32 pm to doubleb
quote:
Please post all three by laws that were mentioned by Fulton's attorney so we can see what best fits the crime.
I would think since it is your argument, then you should provide it. I provided the rulebook that states he tampered and got a 2 year suspension as stated in the rules.
Posted on 8/11/18 at 12:33 pm to DontCare
quote:
Not to be a grammar nazi or anything, but the correct verb conjugation there should have been, “done been ranned.”
Saaaaaay. You're really from Georgia, aren't you?
Posted on 8/11/18 at 12:37 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
It says a lot of things. Can you say who you are talking about specifically?
You already know what I'm talking about, you just don't want to say it because you know where I'm going with this. But I'll humor you, if a non-graduate wants to transfer to another school, what must he do for a year prior to being eligible to play?
Posted on 8/11/18 at 12:40 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
Honest question....because I somewhat agree with you. All the other team boards you have to request permission to post on. Why is the LSU board open to everyone?
Because we’re the strongest contingent. The “request permission” thing is to save your boards from being overrun by us.
And I say that as someone who’s grown to genuinely despise many, many of the LSU fan base.
All that aside, the reason for LSU fans’ frustration is not about y’alls’ boy getting a waiver to be closer to home (the same sort of thing happened for us when TE Colin Jeter received a waiver to come to LSU from Air Force, I think). It’s really that, economically, the NCAA is a cartel and as of the recent ruling with Fulton, it appears that there is no way left to appeal with them on the issue. Fulton’s 2 year suspension is literally unprecedented. But because college football players are not paid and, therefore, not considered “employees,” I’m not sure that there is any legal recourse for upending a draconian sanction that a kid gets docked 50% of his college career for making a mistake/infraction that is punished 100% more harshly than he would’ve been if he’d actually failed the test, which he didn’t, or just refused to participate in the mandatory test. As you can see from recent history, although the NFL is also a cartel, it’s employees do have some additional legal recourse to push back against heavy penalties, a la Tom Brady getting his year-long suspension overturned through legal proceedings.
Also, frick the failcons.
Posted on 8/11/18 at 12:46 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
You're really from Georgia, aren't you?
How dare you!
Although, I did listen to “Up and Vanished.” Maybe I’ve just been influenced by the registers of the people in that pod more than I wouldve expected...?
Posted on 8/11/18 at 12:46 pm to geauxtigahs87
quote:
You already know what I'm talking about, you just don't want to say it because you know where I'm going with this.
Not really. Either you are talking about Demetris Robertson or the LB that went to Alabama. Which is it?
quote:
But I'll humor you, if a non-graduate wants to transfer to another school, what must he do for a year prior to being eligible to play?
Okay, I'll make a wild guess and say you are talking about Robertson. You do know about the Hardship rule, right? Robertson's mother has cancer, and he wants to be closer so he can see her more. That is called a hardship waiver.
Here is the link that explains that:
LINK
Posted on 8/11/18 at 12:49 pm to DontCare
quote:
How dare you!
Although, I did listen to “Up and Vanished.” Maybe I’ve just been influenced by the registers of the people in that pod more than I wouldve expected...?
I can appreciate people who have a good sense of humor and does not allow sports to ruin their lives...or even a month or week of their lives. I do understand, though, the necessity of allowing a loss of you favorite team to ruin a day or two of your life.
Posted on 8/11/18 at 12:54 pm to DontCare
Rules are rules, but this should be a lesson to student athletes who think they are going to fail a test for whatever reason.
Either go ahead and test, or refuse to show up to give the sample. Just say you forgot or something happened.
Either go ahead and test, or refuse to show up to give the sample. Just say you forgot or something happened.
This post was edited on 8/11/18 at 12:55 pm
Posted on 8/11/18 at 12:54 pm to DawgsLife
This might actually be a better explanation:
LINK
The key thing to remember is that a student-athlete is arguing that the best thing for the athlete and his or her family is to allow the athlete to play immediately and that the athlete needs to transfer to assist with an ill or injured family member. The NCAA measures this in three areas.
Nature of the injury or illness: The injury or illness should be life-threatening and involve an immediate family member (parent, legal guardian, or sibling). Waivers that are denied typically involve an extended family member (aunt, uncle, grandparent, etc.) unless that family member raised the student-athlete.
Student-athlete’s responsibilities related to the care of the family member: The more involved the student-athlete is in the day-to-day care for the family member, the more likely the waiver is to be granted.
Chronology of events: Waivers are more likely to be granted if something changed that prompted the student-athlete’s transfer like a diagnosis, the actual injury, or a worsening condition. Waivers are less likely to be granted if a family member has been ill or injured for a while, and nothing changed that require the student-athlete to transfer.
LINK
The key thing to remember is that a student-athlete is arguing that the best thing for the athlete and his or her family is to allow the athlete to play immediately and that the athlete needs to transfer to assist with an ill or injured family member. The NCAA measures this in three areas.
Nature of the injury or illness: The injury or illness should be life-threatening and involve an immediate family member (parent, legal guardian, or sibling). Waivers that are denied typically involve an extended family member (aunt, uncle, grandparent, etc.) unless that family member raised the student-athlete.
Student-athlete’s responsibilities related to the care of the family member: The more involved the student-athlete is in the day-to-day care for the family member, the more likely the waiver is to be granted.
Chronology of events: Waivers are more likely to be granted if something changed that prompted the student-athlete’s transfer like a diagnosis, the actual injury, or a worsening condition. Waivers are less likely to be granted if a family member has been ill or injured for a while, and nothing changed that require the student-athlete to transfer.
Posted on 8/11/18 at 12:56 pm to 00 Tech Grad
quote:
Either go ahead and test, or refuse to show up to give the sample. Just say you forgot or something happened.
It is unfortunate for Fulton what happened. It has cost him dearly and it cost LSU dearly.
Posted on 8/11/18 at 1:01 pm to DawgsLife
Hopefully next year he shows up every down with a giant chip on his shoulder, lays his guy out and ends up with more takeaways than the honey badger did.
Posted on 8/11/18 at 1:06 pm to 00 Tech Grad
quote:
Hopefully next year he shows up every down with a giant chip on his shoulder, lays his guy out and ends up with more takeaways than the honey badger did.
He has the ability....and he can use this as incentive.
Kids are kids. They don't always make good decisions. Hopefully he will learn from his mistake.
Posted on 8/11/18 at 1:07 pm to moneyg
quote:
E
• fails to provide a urine specimen according to protocol; NOPEs
IMHO, wrong Fulton failed to provide a urine specimen according to protocol. He violated this rule.
quote:I agree, Fulton violated this rule.
integrity of the collection process. YES
quote:
3.4. Tampering. A student-athlete who is involved in a case of clearly observed tampering with an NCAA drug-test sample YES
The question in my mind is how does this differ from the first two offenses, and the definition of sample.
When is a fraud-test sample created? Why the need for three rules if they all cover the same event? Who decides which of the three rules were broken and what is the rationale behind it.
That was the only question I had. Not being experienced in the process leaves some questions.
Posted on 8/11/18 at 1:11 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
That is called a hardship waiver.
Precisely
The point being the NCAA isn't as black and white as people make it out to be. There are always exceptions.
A few years ago a guard on Texas was caught accepting benefits, then lied to investigators about it. NCAA suspended him for a year, they appealed, got it reduced to 23 games.
As previously stated, because Fulton was caught trying to use a fake sample and ultimately submitted his own, you can make the argument it should've been a violation of rule 3.3"the attempt"(1 year suspension) instead rule 3.4(2 year suspension).
While serving his suspension, Kristian has done everything right in the process and stayed out of trouble. He's paid the piper and then some. They could have reduced it to the first 6 games and I'd happily take it. But to not even budge on 2 years and to make this decision almost immediately after the meeting ended tells me everything I need to know.
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