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re: The Myth of LSU-Oregon 2011. Lee was terrible.
Posted on 7/30/13 at 2:47 pm to Tiger Voodoo
Posted on 7/30/13 at 2:47 pm to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
Obviously we weren't Oregon or OSU, but I just don't see why you're so worked up over an offense that got the job done very well against 12 of the 13 teams on our schedule
I'm really not worked up. I made a passing comment far earlier in this thread regarding the fact that LSU's offense hasn't been particularly effective since 2008 (I was being generous, I could have said 2007) and that the 2011 Tigers were carried by their defense and special teams. This is manifestly true.
IN response, some crusaders felt compelled to try and demonstrate that the 2011 offense was in fact potent based on wildly misleading statistics like yards per play or 3rd down efficiency. I was merely rebutting those dubious assertions.
2
Posted on 7/30/13 at 2:53 pm to The312
quote:
'm really not worked up. I made a passing comment far earlier in this thread regarding the fact that LSU's offense hasn't been particularly effective since 2008 (I was being generous, I could have said 2007) and that the 2011 Tigers were carried by their defense and special teams. This is manifestly true.
IN response, some crusaders felt compelled to try and demonstrate that the 2011 offense was in fact potent based on wildly misleading statistics like yards per play or 3rd down efficiency. I was merely rebutting those dubious assertions.
Gotcha. Hadn't really been following that series of posts in this thread.
Still, would you agree that a powerful running game putting up over 200 yards and 3 TDs a game and an efficient passing game that threw almost 2 TDs a game and turned the ball over less than .5 per game is pretty darn good?
I understand the inherent limitations of the passing game when they were exposed by a GOAT D, but overall I was thrilled with the O play and the way the coaching staff managed that unit given the horrendous play of the previous 2 (or 3) years.
I look at it as a pretty big success for the coaching staff.
Would have been tough to jump from the level we were at to much higher than we did IMO with the options we had at QB.
This post was edited on 7/30/13 at 2:54 pm
Posted on 7/30/13 at 3:41 pm to The312
quote:Is scoring actually.
Bottom line:
I was only playing by your rules using the yards metric. ('11 is a respectable #5 all time LSU total yds/season)
2011 is 2nd only to '07 in offensive TDs in School history.
And before you go spouting it was ST and D perpetuated, 2003 had just as brilliant ST and D statistically, but scored less offensive TDs.
You can't be tearing down the '11 offense without denigrating a lot of great LSU Os throughout history.
This is where I'm coming from.
Posted on 7/30/13 at 4:28 pm to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
So Lee threw 2 INTs in ONE QUARTER
flynn threw 3 INT's in one game against bama in 2007, two in one quarter I believe, fwiw.
Posted on 7/30/13 at 5:48 pm to TheDoc
quote:
flynn threw 3 INT's in one game against bama in 2007, two in one quarter I believe, fwiw.
Did he do so on 7 attempts with ~20 yards for the game and look absolutely lost doing it?
Posted on 7/30/13 at 5:54 pm to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
Tiger Voodoo
Hi JJ. I wish you the best.
Posted on 7/30/13 at 6:07 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:
Hi JJ. I wish you the best.
I sincerely doubt that.
Posted on 7/30/13 at 6:19 pm to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
Did he do so on 7 attempts with ~20 yards for the game and look absolutely lost doing it?
no QB has ever looked this lost
Posted on 7/30/13 at 6:47 pm to League Champs
Meh, Jefferson played bad in the NCG, but that play isn't all tht awful. He was trying to make something out of nothing and Ware turned upfield right as he released the ball. If Ware hesitates one more split second, its a 5 yard gain.
Our 2011 offense was more than serviceable. We roll any team not named Alabama. 2011 LSU and 2011 Alabama are two of the best SEC teams of the last 20 years.
Our 2011 offense was more than serviceable. We roll any team not named Alabama. 2011 LSU and 2011 Alabama are two of the best SEC teams of the last 20 years.
Posted on 7/30/13 at 6:51 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
but that play isn't all tht awful
Posted on 7/30/13 at 7:23 pm to League Champs
quote:Surely looked no more lost than the 2 blown cover reads on 11-5.
no QB has ever looked this lost
Lee actually had the good fortune of riding pine that night, preserving his sainthood with certain obtuse factions of the fanbase.
I'll just leave to your imagination what his performance on 1-9 would've looked like with all that crimson in the backfield.
Posted on 7/30/13 at 7:32 pm to League Champs
quote:
no QB has ever looked this lost
I posted this breakdown of JJ's play WHICH I NEVER SAID WAS GOOD earlier in this thread in response to a typical "JJ WAS TERRIBLE ALL NIGHT" comment.
Most people claim they'll "never watch that abomination again", yet pretend to know how it actually went down which is just ignorant.
JJ was clearly not having a great game against a swarming D, but there just wasn't much for any QB to do with our OL being absolutely destroyed every single play, not to mention Hurst putting us in long down situations with false start penalties. I wish he would have tried getting a few holding calls instead of just letting people run by him all night.
I doubt you'll read it, but never hurts to try to set the record straight.
quote:
JJ had run for a first down and was 3/3 for 21 yards before a screen pass to Blue on 3rd down lost 3 at the end of the first quarter which dropped him to 4/4 for 18 yards.
The first LSU drive of the 2nd quarter he completed 2 passes and on 3rd and 2 Spencer Ware let a screen pass go straight between his hands when he had room to get the 1st. At that point he was 6/7 for 26 yards. He was completing passes, there just was ZERO time to let anything develop downfield.
But I've actually rewatched the game unlike most people on here, so it doesn't surprise me that people say things about the game that just aren't so.
I'm not saying JJ was playing great. But the Alabama D was swarming unlike anything I'd ever seen, the D couldn't get off the field giving up 4, 5.5, and 6.5 minute sustained drives keeping our O on the sidelines, so the frustration wasn't simply from our QB play.
The game was 6-0 right before halftime until the D gave up a 52 yard drive in under 2 minutes and Bama got another FG on the last play of the 1st half to go up 9-0.
Not bashing the D, but if they get a stop there it's 6-0 at halftime and maybe Miles is more willing to give Lee a chance in the second half.
But the D gives up a 50 yd FG drive out of half and now it's 12-0. We're still technically in the game, but a turnover would pretty much end the game. Lee is not your man in that scenario.
On our first drive of the second half JJ completes a 19 yard pass to OBJ, but then Hurst absolutely lets Upshaw run clean by him and JJ gets sacked and we end up in 3rd and long so we punt again.
We don't get the ball back until 7:48 in the 3rd and that's the pitch INT.
At that point, the defense is just annihilating us, and I think throwing Lee in at that point just wouldn't have been fair to him.
It would have saved all the second guessing from Miles haters, but Lee looked like he had shite his pants on the sidelines by that point.
So he stuck with JJ hoping to keep it close so the D or ST could make big play.
Herbstreit and Musberger took the Bama dick out of their mouths long enough to say the exact same thing at halftime. There was no reason to look to Lee because JJ was "a better athlete that gave us more options to attack the vaunted Bama D".
Not that they're always right obviously, but anyone pretending that it was idiocy or Miles' JJ love that kept Lee on the bench just isn't being objective or hasn't rewatched the game.
This post was edited on 7/30/13 at 7:36 pm
Posted on 7/30/13 at 7:53 pm to The312
quote:
2011 Tigers were carried by their defense and special teams. This is manifestly true.
I haven't read your manifest, but you'd be wrong. Certainly they benefitted from great defense and special teams play, most teams with under 2 losses do. However the season stats show that the length of their TD drives and average starting position were roughly the same as 2006. Not saying they were comparable to 2006, but the stats show that 2011 could score from anywhere on the field.
<if you're interested you can search the site and find the stats/charts>
Posted on 7/30/13 at 7:54 pm to Tiger Voodoo
Nope. Seriously. I respect all former tigers that gave their best. I don't bad mouth JJ or JL. I wish we had not had our great QB troubles era, but I don't denigrate the efforts of our boys.
Posted on 7/30/13 at 7:54 pm to Tiger Voodoo
quote:Completing 65% given the situation, wasn't so bad.
JJ was clearly not having a great game against a swarming D
There wasn't much yardage, but he was likely told to take what was given and not force.
LSU didn't have the tools in the box (JJ, Lee, or Mett) nor the sophisticated pass attack to counter what Bama was doing that night.
Those are the ills of running a mostly PA pass attack all year.
Posted on 7/30/13 at 10:10 pm to AlaTiger
quote:
My point is that we remember the 2011 Tigers as dominant, and at times, they were not very good at all. They had playmakers on defense/special teams, though, and those playmakers would set the table for the offense. That is how we won tough games throughout the year.
What tough games? Alabama? Maybe Mississippi State?
quote:
That is also what I think Les was waiting for on 1/9/12 and it never happened.
Les and the team were too busy planning their victory tours to bother getting ready for that game.
quote:
If Mett doesn't light the world on fire from the very beginning, he is still better than Lee was
How in the hell will we know that?
quote:
The first game will tell a lot, but it won't be the whole story.
No shite.
quote:
All I care about is winning and not what the team looks like in doing so. The rest will take care of itself.
So we win all the games and "the rest will take care of itself"? What the hell is the "rest"?
Posted on 7/30/13 at 10:24 pm to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
I posted this breakdown of JJ's play WHICH I NEVER SAID WAS GOOD earlier in this thread in response to a typical "JJ WAS TERRIBLE ALL NIGHT" comment
JJ was terrible all night.
JJ was no more terrible than our team as a whole, except the defense was slightly less terrible. There is no person associated with the LSU football team who performed anywhere close to adequately that night. It was the worst game LSU has played in years. It was a disgrace to the program. The season as a whole was a great success because of how awesome it was before that night. The fact that one night could almost (and in the minds of some actually) make a 13-1 SEC championship #2 national finish season a disappointment is a testament to how bad it was. I will go to my grave thinking that something poisonous went on in the locker room that night (and for a long time before that) and resulted in nobody wanting to show up for that game. Whatever really happened, nobody from LSU showed up that night, whether player or coach. If that ever happens again, every player should lose his scholarship and every coach should be fired.
I know it did happen again in the shite-Fil-A Bowl last year, but it's more acceptable when the season is already a failure than it is when it's the national title game.
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